How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?

by Dott. Giuliano Bettini
Retired. Earlier: Selenia SpA, Rome and IDS SpA, Pisa
Also Adjunct Professor at the University of Pisa
Adjunct Professor at Naval Academy, Leghorn (Italian Navy)

Abstract
In the present article I would like to answer a question posed by L. Kowalsky in a recent paper: how can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper? “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler”, says a guy. I apologizes if I am too simplistic here.

Introduction
The interest on Andrea Rossi’s Nickel-Hydrogen Cold Fusion technology is accelerating [1]. However, Rossi says that about 30% of nickel was turned into copper, after 6 months of uninterrupted operation. Kowalski [2]. says that “this seems to be impossible because the produced copper isotopes rapidly decay into Ni”. But how it works?

How it works
Following Focardi Rossi [3]. a Ni58 nucleus produces a Copper nucleus according to the reaction

Ni58 + p → Cu59

Copper nucleus Cu59 decays with positron (e+) and neutrino (ν) emission in Ni59 nucleus according to

Cu59 → Ni59 + ν + e+

Then (e+) annichilates with (e-) in two gamma-rays

e- + e+ → γ + γ

Starting [3] from Ni58 which is the more abundant isotope, we can obtain as described in the two above processes Copper formation and its successive decay in Nickel, producing Ni59, Ni60, Ni61 and Ni62. Because Cu63, which can be formed starting by Ni62, is stable and does not decay in Ni63, the chain stops at Ni62 (i.e. Cu63). Each process means some MeV.

Of course how can a proton p gets captured by the Ni58 nucleus? (and subsequent Ni59, Ni60, Ni61 and Ni62). Following Stremmenos [4]. a neutron-like particle, an electron proton pair, a mini-atom, a proton masked as a neutron, gets captured by the Ni58.

If the masked proton becomes a neutron the result is Ni59.
In order to have Cu59 (increase of atomic number from 28 to 29) the electron (of the masked proton) gets ejected from the nucleus. The masked proton becomes a proton.

The same process holds for all the subsequent transformations, until Cu63.
It remains to be understood the issue of the gamma radiation in the MeV range.

Numbers
I am an electronic engineer, so I need easy numbers in order to understand.
However “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler”, says a guy. Maybe I am too simple here.
Let’s calculate.
 
MeV for each Ni transformation
I read that starting from Ni58 we can obtain Copper formation and its successive decay in Nickel, producing Ni59, Ni60, and Ni62. The chain stops at Cu63 stable.
For simplicity I assume all the Nickel in the reactor in the form Ni58.
For simplicity I suppose for each Ni58 the whole sequence of events from Ni58 to Cu63 and as a rough estimate I calculate the mass defect between (Ni58 plus 5 nucleons) and the final state Cu63.
Ni58 mass is calculated to be 57.95380± 15 amu
The actual mass of a copper-Cu63 nucleus is 62.91367 amu
Mass of Ni58 plus 5 nucleons is  57.95380+5=62.95380 amu
Mass defect is 62.95380-62.91367=0.04013 amu
1 amu = 931 MeV is used as a standard conversion
0.04013×931 MeV=37.36 MeV
So each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
 
 
Nickel consumption
According to many blogs in the Internet “One hundred grams of nickel powder can power a 10 kW unit for a minimum of six months”.
How much of Ni58 should be transformed, in six months of continuous operation, in order to generate 10 kW?
I follow a procedure outlined in [2].
10 kW is thermal or electrical (?) power. The nuclear power must be larger. Assume a nuclear power twice:
20 kW = 20,000 J/s = 1.25 x 10**17 MeV/s.
Each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
The number of Ni58 transformations should thus be equal to (1.25 x 10**17)/37.36 = 3.346 x 10**15 per second.
Multiplying by the number of seconds in six months (1.55 x 10**7) the total number of transformed Ni58 nuclei is 5.186 x 10**22.
This means 5 grams.
The order of magnitude is not exactly the same but seems to be plausible. This means also 5 grams of Nickel in Rossi’s reactor transmuted into (stable) Copper after six months of continuous operation at the rate of 10 kW.
 
Conclusions
Rossi says that about 30% of nickel was turned into copper, after 6 months of uninterrupted operation. At first glance this seems to agree with calculations based on simple assumptions.
 
References

 

890 comments to How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?

  • D.Chambers

    Dear Mr. Rossi,

    I would like to answer Alessandro Casali, on the question of how the reaction stops.
    If you go back in this blog thread, you will see that the cooling water flow is increased thus lowering heat in the reactor. It’s an observation that about 60C is where the reaction starts and if there is hysterisis in the reaction, some lower temperature is where it stops. This is merely what I gleaned from Mr. Rossi’s answers to some earlier questions.

    Mr. Rossi please keep up the good work and God bless you.

    D.Chambers

  • David Rimshnick

    Wonderful work, Mr. Rossi! I wish you all the best.

    I worry – will this cause Nickel prices to spike, eliminating potential cost savings?

    Again, best of luck to you. Thanks for your efforts!

    Dave

  • Alessandro Casali

    thanks again Mr. Rossi for your quick reply.

    I undesrstand your reasons so i won’t be asking more on this subject.

    I have however developed my own convictions about this matter and i think there are 2 possibile answers:

    1) Electricity (together with or insted of heat) is needed to kick start the reaction and keep it going, that whould mean that Electricity had a great role in the reaction process (electrolysis).

    2) The reactor design has some kind of trick that allows the heat produced by the input energy to be vital for the reaction survival.

    Best regards,
    A.C.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Alessandro Casali:
    I cannot answer to your questions for confidentiality reasons.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Alessandro Casali

    thank you Mr. Rossi for your quick reply.

    so input energy (after the start up) is required only for security reasons?

    I just can’t understand how can the reaction stop when you turn off input energy.

    If the assumption that “reaction starter is the heat produced by the input energy” is true, how can the reaction stop just unplugging the e-cat given that the heat produced by the reaction itself should be much bigger than that obtained at start up?

    I’m sure I’m missing something in my thinking and i’ll be very happy if you could give me some good clue.

    In respect to your industrial secret I will understand if you can’t answer my questions.

    Warm regards.
    A.C.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Alessandro Casali:
    1- the design is important
    2- the secret is just an industrial secret ans as such can’t be disclosed
    3- we need a drive foer safety reasons.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Alessandro Casali

    Dear Mr. Rossi,

    i would like to express my full appreciation for your discovery and for your kindness.
    I’m skeptical by nature but i’m also kind of a dreamer, very interested in good science and progress for humankind therefore i’m really excited about your E-cat and hope it will deliver all that it promises.

    I have some curiosity about the E-cat and hope you can answert my questions:

    is the reactor design important/functional to the reaction or the real secret is in the powder mix, hydrogen pressure and reactor temperature?

    if I remember well, input energy is needed to start the reaction by heating the reactor chamber, why then E-cat needs input energy after the reaction has started? shouldn’t the heat produced by the reaction itself be enough to keep the reaction going, considering the output energy is much bigger the the input?

    Warm regards,
    A.C.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr James Bowery:
    We are following our scheduled program with the maximum possible speed.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear ZGL,
    I forwarded your message to Prof. Kelly.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Tony

    I should have added to my comment below that if ashes can be a catalyst that allows sugar to burn then why is it so hard to believe that that a catalyst can’t allow Hydrogen to be used to transmute Nickel into Copper at several hundred degrees and get some excess heat as a result.

    Thank you,

    Tony

  • Tony

    I’m very excited. I’m an electrical engineer but I don’t need to know exactly how it works to appreciate it or make use of it and I don’t have to be a physicists to believe it’s possible when it is finally understood.

    Perpetual motion machine – not even close. Anyone using that to dismiss it should learn to ask more questions and listen to the answers. I’ve been passing the word and using the following old chemistry example to explain catalysts to them.

    I ask them if they ever tried to burn sugar. You can’t get it to combine chemically with the oxygen in the air but they know there’s energy there. There’s even a common unit called calories to quantify the energy. I tell them that if they put some cigarette ashes on it they can then get it to burn. It’s not magic. It’s not the ashes burning. You can get excess heat from it and all you had to do was add some ashes and a small flame.

    Another person, not a skeptic, has declared the death of solar, wind, nuclear etc. and I wanted to share my reply. I said:

    I think your predictions are off and you’re not considering all of the possibilities. I’m not saying that I’ll be right but why would it put solar, wind and geothermal out of business? If anything, these should increase in use. It’s a chain reaction in the right direction so why would you put all your eggs in one basket and declare other industries and technologies dead. Homes might convert to electric heat and not buy an E-Cat. We would still get our energy from the grid since the infrastructure is there and it’s convenient. The source just won’t be coal or oil and the costs will come down.

    Cheap energy means cheap manufacturing. Cheaper metal refining, cheaper silicon, cheaper transportation etc. so now you can have more solar panels, more windmills at a much lower price. You can produce hydrogen to be used in cars instead of electric cars with huge batteries and eliminate the gas engines since now it’s really cheap to separate hydrogen from water. All electric cars can still be used for short commutes etc. but gas would be a “luxury” and probably more heavily taxed than it is now and subsidies will be removed to keep this cost high to discourage it’s use. It’s “dirty” and will eventually be frowned upon like wearing real fur.

    Things won’t change over night but clean energy can now grow significantly and there will be oil left over for the uses where it can be put to it’s best uses where the other solutions just won’t do. I’m excited about the big picture, prosperity, the benefits to the environment and people of the world. We should be smart and still push efficiency and not waste energy because it’s cheap and clean so hopefully we’ve learned that lesson and we’ll keep the course in this direction and be so lucky that Andrea Rossi’s discovery will be another turning point in history, in our lifetime, that gives us hope that humanity really has a long term future.

    Sorry for the long message but…

    I am truly excited and wish Mr Rossi the best since it seems his determination is inspirational and we should all strive to invent, create, improve and discover the world around us.

    Tony

  • ZGL

    Dear Mr. Rossi

    Congratulations on your discovery. I am trying to organize a seminar and would like to invite Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA) on the topics of nuclear physics. Would you help confirm the spelling or the university that prof. George Kelly works at? Thank you and best wishes.

    ZGL

  • V. Godbole

    Why can’t Mr. Rossi give smaller demonstration with the help of his production-line devices (which will later be fitted into the 1 MW device) in front of newer (serious and sincere) investigators with newer (serious and sincere) doubts and questions?

    Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue – I mean not the freak or insulting doubts and questions but the serious and sincere ones. Every production-line device has to be individually tested. Mr. Rossi should therefore periodically hold demos and answer the newer doubts and questions not just with clever brush-off words but with live activity of his production-line devices (which will be built in into the larger device and have to be tested beforehand). Is that not possible?

    Feed-back from serious-minded investigators should be welcome.

  • Mr. Rossi,

    Please allow me to clarify:

    You said that it is “not true” that the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm will start testing next week. You then implied that the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm cannot test without you. Since you trust these Universities may they please run tests on existing prototype devices while you remain committed to the 1MW project?

    I have a specific reason for asking this:

    As you are aware, the United States is suffering under a particularly difficult academic and political situation with regard to low energy nuclear reactions. A demonstration prior to the primary election campaigns that will influence public policy in the US during the coming primary elections, would be of great benefit to the American people in choosing candidates that deserve public trust and authority.

    If the Universities of Stockholm and Uppsala perform timely evaluations with sufficient transparency (excluding, of course, the key catalytic ingredients) then the requirements for the politically influential demonstration may be fulfilled. Your encouragement to them in this regard would be most helpful.

    Sincerely,

    James Bowery

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear James Bowery:
    Time spent with that kind of Universities is gold. The more, the better: there is really to learn.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Mr. Rossi,

    What sort of investment of your time is required for the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm to test the existing E-CAT prototypes in their facilities?

    Sincerely,

    James Bowery

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Jed Rothwell:
    Not true, before the start up of my 1 MW plant I will have time for nothing.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Enrico Billi:
    You are right, so be it: “For Dummies” (like me).
    Lavolale, lavolale! (he,he,he)
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Ivan Aquino:
    1- we know the theory on the base of which our E-Cat work. We will release it as soon as out patent will be granted. Safety issues have been addressed and certificated after thousands of tests
    2- No more public tests will be made, since from November our products will be in the market. The R&D activity will not be public
    3- For the next 2 years my work will be focused on USA and Greece
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Alberto Pepe:
    The drive is not constant,
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Charles Moir:
    The 1 MW plant goes to a Customer who will use it regularly for ever.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • A question arouse about your 1MW demonstration in October. Presumably you’ll be running this for some time. But then I wondered how you’re going to get rid of 1MW of heat exactly? This is not a trivial amount of energy and would heat very large amounts of water, especially if you run it for an extended period of time. If it’s just air-cooled then that a lot more difficult to measure.

    Keep up the good work,
    Charles

  • Alberto Pepe

    Dear Mr. Rossi
    I was wondering if the power supply needed when e-cat is started and works is the same needed at the starting point. I means if it needs, let’s say 400 Watt at the starting, it needs the same 400 Watt during the whole working period?

    Thank you.
    Alberto Pepe

  • savaris paolo

    Joseph Fine, HRG

    In a single test I made with Nickel doped with Zirconium, I found 0,3% Ytterbio (the original material contained a few ppm of Yb, the concentration ratio was about 2000 times)
    In test that I run there are no heavy elements in origin (but Nickel and less Titanium). The presence of Ta, Hf, Yb is difficult to explain. I hope someone give me a hint!

    HRG – I have not assembled an experimental setup to be able to assess with precision the excess energy, but I’m working …

    Best Regards

    Paolo Savaris

  • Ivan Aquino

    Signor Rossi,
    scrivo in italiano perché farei troppi errori in inglese e mi scuso per questo. Dal 15 gennaio mi tengo costantemente aggiornato sullo stato dei suoi lavori. Sono uno studente di fisica e come tale cerco sempre di analizzare oggettivamente e con distacco quello che leggo o che mi viene insegnato, perché ogni essere umano mette tanto, troppo di sé in quello di cui si occupa come lavoro.
    Il vostro lavoro sembra essere la soluzione ad un problema che il mondo, lasciato nello stato in cui si trova ora, non avrebbe saputo risolvere nemmeno nel giro di 50 anni ( a mio parere ).
    Più volte mi sono ritrovato a chiedermi perché lei è il Prof. Focardi abbiate effettuato questi test pubblici senza conoscere quale fosse il reale principio di funzionamento del vostro e-cat. E’ corretto proporre una soluzione energetica così pulita quando si è “ignoranti” sul funzionamento preciso della reazione (nucleare, e non credo possano esserci dubbi su questo, ma leggo ancora di qualche incerto) in corso?
    Mi sono risposto di sì! La storia è piena di vicende come la sua. Io spero che le leggi del mercato, che purtroppo non tengono conto delle problematiche ambientali, vi diano ragione.
    Le volevo chiedere se sono previsti ulteriori test in pubblico e se in Italia sia stata considerata la realizzazione di una centrale come in Grecia.
    Buon lavoro!

    Cordiali saluti,
    Ivan Aquino

  • Enrico Billi

    We could say “For Dummies” instead of “idiot-proof”, it is more elegant 😉

  • V. Godbole

    to Zephir

    Your theory is too simplistic. It can’t answer the question why this reaction happens in case of Ni-H but not in other cases (Fe-H or Pd-D and many such combinations X-H or Z-D etc.).

    A good/complete theory must explain why something happens in one case and/but not in some other case.

  • I have heard that the tests at Uppsala and Stockolm Universities will begin this week. Is that so? That’s great!

  • Ing. Casadei

    Thank you very much for you kind answer.
    I really hope that what we are talking about will be the solution of all our energy problems,not the seed for future problems;but it’s not the place to talk about this matter.
    Thanks again for your great work and for your kindness.
    Hope that everything will go as we all wish.
    Cordiali saluti da Bologna.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Claud (Claudio Rossi):
    You are right.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear HRG:
    In our contracts with our Customers we guarantee 6 times the input.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Bill Conley,
    I must correct you: the test they made had a well controlled flux. Anyway: you will have very soon a report about the same test repeated, with the flow controlled in an “idiot-proof” system…you’ll see, stay in touch.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Ing. Casadei:
    Very important question, thank you. We4 are making our reactors work since more than 2 years now, to check all the safety issues, before putting them in the market.
    The safety tests are performed with specialized experts.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Ing. Casadei

    Dear Mr Rossi,

    wich kind of study have you done about the safety of your system?Did you test it for a long time or just in a brief period of time?I think that it should be clear how much you know about this system and how much it is supposed to be safe.

    Why you decided to produce your “idea” in Greece?

    Thanks.
    Best regards.

  • Bill Conley

    Mr. Rossi,
    First of all, thank you so much for maintaining this open communication link and sharing what you can with us about the E-Cat and its commercial rollout. It is all very exciting and I wish you well.
    I was pleased that you have entrusted E-Cats (E-Kittens?) to Professors Kullander and Essen at Uppsala and Stockolm Universities. I must concur with you that these are trustworthy men of science who can be trusted.
    Since these gentlemen will be testing the E-Cat as a black box, will they be free to communicate the results of their testing openly? The reason I ask is that some skeptics have issues with some of the test setups and procedures of the prior demonstrations (e.g. lack of water flow meters in the loop). So if the good professors testing setups address some of these issues, will your agreement allow them to communicate the setups and the results of their experiments?
    Bill

  • HRG

    Dr. savaris paolo:
    I am very curious to know how much energy yield you got from your Ni-H reaction experiments (ie. net yield, above the energy you inputted to initiate the reaction)?

  • Joseph Fine

    Paolo Savaris,

    Thank you for your recent comments about detecting Hafnium and Tantalum in your experiment. If you don’t use Tungsten, could there be Ytterbium in your system?

    http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele070.html

    If you only use Nickel and Hydrogen, what do you think could be the cause of this result?

    Best regards,

    J.F.

  • IMO the cold fusion of hydrogen and nickel can work at room temperature, because the repulsive Coulomb barrier is relevant for naked nickel nuclei only, i.e. these completely ionized one. The atom nuclei stripped of all electrons can be prepared easily at the case of lightweight atoms, like the hydrogen or hellium – but heavier atoms are surprisingly reluctant against the complete lost of their electrons. The energy (density) required for complete ionization of nickel nuclei is comparable to the energy density required for its fission – which basically means, the electrons at the bottom of nickel orbitals are forming the nearly homogeneous energetic continuum with the underlying atom nuclei. So, when the nickel atom is full of electrons, these electrons are balancing/shielding the repulsive forces of atom nuclei for tiny proton, which could literally “swim” through nickel orbitals into its core.

    http://www.aetherwavetheory.info/images/physics/nuclear/fusion/cold/nickel_fusion.gif

  • Claud

    Dear Ing. Rossi

    Many of us really hope for you the best success of your extraordinary project. But probably not all of us. It really impacts in the very sensitive field of energy that is worldwide a monopolistic issue with relevant strategical interests.
    I think that – in case of positive outcome of your experiment – your catalyzer woud be a strategical matter both if launched worldwide as the heat engine of the future, and if not.
    I think that you should share the core knowledge of your machine with other trustworthy teams operating in different countries (obviously under licence or with strong non-competition agreements) rather than concentrate this precious know-how in very few persons.
    Smearing the credibility of a single scientist is very easier than doing it for a vast scientific movement.
    With my sincere appreciation and wishing you the best result for your revolutionary discovery.

    Claudio Rossi
    Roma

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Mats Hilmersson:
    4 kW
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Mats Hilmersson

    Dear Mr. Rossi

    Since there are only a few months until you’re delivering your 1MW array: How come that you not until recently decided which version, 10kW or 4 kW, to deliver?
    Good luck with the delivery :-)

  • savaris paolo

    Ing. Rossi
    OK. As soon as I will send you a report on my (Ni-H)tests.
    I do not use steel for heating the Ni-material, but a little ceramic container (home made with components of known composition)

    Mr. Fine –
    The problem is that by XRF analysis data, Tungsten in the original materials is orders of magnitude lower than Tantalum in final products.

    Con i migliori saluti

    Paolo Savaris

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Randy:
    I usually react by instinct. I have total trust in the Uppsala and Stockolm Universities.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Paul:
    This is gonne be everybody’s energy source, through a complex strategy we are setting up.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Mr Scott Hansen:
    Our technology will work with, not against, the existing technologies.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Scott Hansen

    Dear Mr. Rossi

    Your E-Cat has me really excited for our future. I live in Fairbanks Alaska were we experience the highest energy cost in the nation. With your E-Cat I would be able to heat my home, justify an electric vehicle and heat and light a greenhouse through the long cold winter.

    I work for an oil company, so I will probably be looking for a new trade. Perhaps an E-Cat distributor will be in order.

    Thank you for a better life in the near future.
    Scott

  • Paul

    Dear Mr. Rossi,

    I would venture to say that once your technology becomes available, thousands of engineers will be trying to apply it to their field of expertise. Do you plan to require licensing to experiment with the technology or just licensing for implementation of a marketed product? Are you planning on granting exclusive licensing for all applications or are you going to let the little guys have a place at the table?

    Paul

  • Randy

    Aren’t you worried about security loaning energy catalysts to the University of Uppsala and to the University of Stockholm? These units are small enough that even a physicist could lug one off.

  • Andrea Rossi

    The production of Ni in the world is enormous, compared with our projected consumes.
    Warm regards,
    A.R.

  • Viktor

    Dear Mr Rossi,

    The next 6 months might be the longest ever for some of us :)

    Maybe it was mentioned before, but I just checked who is producing Nickel in the EU, it is Greece.
    Was this the reason for selecting this country? (although can’t be compared with Russia or Australia)

    Do you think there would be better metals (i say metals because of assumed inductivity in the process) than Nickel for this reaction?

    Chewing my nails,
    Viktor

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