How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?

by Dott. Giuliano Bettini
Retired. Earlier: Selenia SpA, Rome and IDS SpA, Pisa
Also Adjunct Professor at the University of Pisa
Adjunct Professor at Naval Academy, Leghorn (Italian Navy)

Abstract
In the present article I would like to answer a question posed by L. Kowalsky in a recent paper: how can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper? “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler”, says a guy. I apologizes if I am too simplistic here.

Introduction
The interest on Andrea Rossi’s Nickel-Hydrogen Cold Fusion technology is accelerating [1]. However, Rossi says that about 30% of nickel was turned into copper, after 6 months of uninterrupted operation. Kowalski [2]. says that “this seems to be impossible because the produced copper isotopes rapidly decay into Ni”. But how it works?

How it works
Following Focardi Rossi [3]. a Ni58 nucleus produces a Copper nucleus according to the reaction

Ni58 + p → Cu59

Copper nucleus Cu59 decays with positron (e+) and neutrino (ν) emission in Ni59 nucleus according to

Cu59 → Ni59 + ν + e+

Then (e+) annichilates with (e-) in two gamma-rays

e- + e+ → γ + γ

Starting [3] from Ni58 which is the more abundant isotope, we can obtain as described in the two above processes Copper formation and its successive decay in Nickel, producing Ni59, Ni60, Ni61 and Ni62. Because Cu63, which can be formed starting by Ni62, is stable and does not decay in Ni63, the chain stops at Ni62 (i.e. Cu63). Each process means some MeV.

Of course how can a proton p gets captured by the Ni58 nucleus? (and subsequent Ni59, Ni60, Ni61 and Ni62). Following Stremmenos [4]. a neutron-like particle, an electron proton pair, a mini-atom, a proton masked as a neutron, gets captured by the Ni58.

If the masked proton becomes a neutron the result is Ni59.
In order to have Cu59 (increase of atomic number from 28 to 29) the electron (of the masked proton) gets ejected from the nucleus. The masked proton becomes a proton.

The same process holds for all the subsequent transformations, until Cu63.
It remains to be understood the issue of the gamma radiation in the MeV range.

Numbers
I am an electronic engineer, so I need easy numbers in order to understand.
However “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler”, says a guy. Maybe I am too simple here.
Let’s calculate.
 
MeV for each Ni transformation
I read that starting from Ni58 we can obtain Copper formation and its successive decay in Nickel, producing Ni59, Ni60, and Ni62. The chain stops at Cu63 stable.
For simplicity I assume all the Nickel in the reactor in the form Ni58.
For simplicity I suppose for each Ni58 the whole sequence of events from Ni58 to Cu63 and as a rough estimate I calculate the mass defect between (Ni58 plus 5 nucleons) and the final state Cu63.
Ni58 mass is calculated to be 57.95380± 15 amu
The actual mass of a copper-Cu63 nucleus is 62.91367 amu
Mass of Ni58 plus 5 nucleons is  57.95380+5=62.95380 amu
Mass defect is 62.95380-62.91367=0.04013 amu
1 amu = 931 MeV is used as a standard conversion
0.04013×931 MeV=37.36 MeV
So each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
 
 
Nickel consumption
According to many blogs in the Internet “One hundred grams of nickel powder can power a 10 kW unit for a minimum of six months”.
How much of Ni58 should be transformed, in six months of continuous operation, in order to generate 10 kW?
I follow a procedure outlined in [2].
10 kW is thermal or electrical (?) power. The nuclear power must be larger. Assume a nuclear power twice:
20 kW = 20,000 J/s = 1.25 x 10**17 MeV/s.
Each transformation of Ni58 into Cu63 releases 37.36MeV of nuclear energy.
The number of Ni58 transformations should thus be equal to (1.25 x 10**17)/37.36 = 3.346 x 10**15 per second.
Multiplying by the number of seconds in six months (1.55 x 10**7) the total number of transformed Ni58 nuclei is 5.186 x 10**22.
This means 5 grams.
The order of magnitude is not exactly the same but seems to be plausible. This means also 5 grams of Nickel in Rossi’s reactor transmuted into (stable) Copper after six months of continuous operation at the rate of 10 kW.
 
Conclusions
Rossi says that about 30% of nickel was turned into copper, after 6 months of uninterrupted operation. At first glance this seems to agree with calculations based on simple assumptions.
 
References

 

908 comments to How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?

  • Nel prossimo numero di Energie Magazine, in edicola fra 15 giorni circa, ci sarà un bellissimo articolo sull’E-Cat scritto da Leonardo Cigolini Gulesu!
    http://www.energiemagazine.it
    http://www.sostenibileo.com

  • Robert

    Dear calculus,

    You are asking a good question. I can name a number of effects why Ni depletion will not occur soon:
    – You reference the amount that is currently viable to mine. The Ni-part of the E-cat operation cost is extremely low. The Ni-price could rise I at least another order of magnitude, without causing any sort of crisis. Doubling the Ni price will cause other reserves to be viably to extract.
    – Ni mining will become cheaper as energy becomes cheaper
    – “Cold fusion”/LENR/… will become proper science again, funding will be available for research and healthy peer reviewing will help the field find new reactions
    – Current energy demand is 4× lower than your estimate. Average world consumption is 17 TW, so slightly above 2 kW per capita.

    These factors will prolong the time granted by our reserve significantly. After so many centuries, I think it is realistic to say mining other planets will be easy. Furthermore, I think planets will be mined earlier than necessary, just to preserve our planet even better.

    Best regards,
    Robert

  • Andrea Rossi

    Gent. Elena Benvenuti,
    OK,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Gent.mo Dott. Rossi,
    sono il caporedattore della rivista Energie, le scrivo in quanto nel prossimo numero che sarà in edicola a fine mese, uno dei nostri contributor, il Sig. Leonardo Cigolini Gulesu, pubblicherà un articolo in riferimento all’E-Cat e vorremmo chiederle se gentilmente dispone di qualche immagine in alta definizione da allegare all’articolo.
    La ringrazio per la collaborazione e le invio i miei più cordiali saluti.

    Elena Benvenuti

  • Gregory Goble

    Thank you for the works so far,

    Permitting for a 1MW heat plant in Mexico is less stringent than the U.S. yet electricity from such a plant is easily exported to the U.S. Anyone can turn that heat into electricity, the equipment to do that already exists.

    Different frequencies of sound may cause cavitation and focus heat within the nickel and hydrogen lattice, specific frequencies oscillating through a harmonic may create waves weakening the lines of resistance between atoms. Is sound the catalyst?

    “Not so far in the distant future, the next generation… will look back at our generation and know that the term ‘energy shortage’ was a term for unenlightened minds” gbgoble-2009

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear J.R.:
    Thank you for the explication, and thanks also to Todd McKissick for his kind encouragement.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • J.R.

    Hello Mr. Rossi,

    I just wanted to comment on your response to Todd McKissick’s comment on October 18th. Mr. McKissick’s comment about enjoying the journey is a common American expression of encouragement. After a person finally reaches a goal or important achievement and when they look back, they realize that the journey or process to get there was more rewarding than reaching their goal. In other words, as a result of the journey, they have become stronger. From your response it did not sound like you understood the expression, and that he was encouraging you.

  • calculus

    Maybe I’m stupid (probably…), but simply after numbers 🙂
    It uses Nickle, right?
    Wikipedia says there may be 70 to 170 million metric tons of commercially viable nickle reserves on the planet.
    70 M t is 70E13 or 7E14 gramms.
    Say a 10kW e-cat consumes 200 gramms a year.
    Say a 10kW heat production facility is what a 4-head family needs to warm their house, bath, and maybe even generate electricity.
    Then 4 persons consume 200 gramms a year, or 1 person 50 grams a year.
    Okay, we have
    7E14 gramms / 7E9 humans ==> 10,000 gramms per human.
    10,000 gramms / 50g/a ==> All (not-yet-produced) nickle would be used within 200 years?
    But then again, it says somewhere that only 30% get transformed into Cu.
    So, we’d have 600 years.
    And what will our grand^15-children “burn”? 🙂

    And there is no industry or transportation at all considered, only “housing”.
    Do we have enough Ni, and Ni58 to start with, to power the world for long on this?
    Hey, I do in no way mean to say fossils or nuclear or … are the better way, I just wonder, do we have enoug Ni? 🙂

  • Stefano Quattrini

    Salve Mr.Rossi,
    è molto saggia l’idea di installare un motore di Stirling. Un motore di questo tipo andrebbe utilizzato per dimostrare definitivamente la produzione di energia di un singolo e-cat.
    (it’s very wise the idea to install a Stirling engine. Such a engine would be used to show definitively the energy production of a single e-cat).

    Un motore di Stirling con un semplice alternatore chiuso su un carico, messo a valle del flusso di calore prodotto dall’e-cat, mediante un semplice misuratore di potenza elettrica, permetterebbe di misurare (per difetto) la potenza prodotta dall’e-cat in maniera incontrovertibile confrontandola con la potenza elettrica immessa per l’innesco.
    (A Stirling engine coupled with a simple alternator closed on a load, to be put after the heat flux produced by the e-cat, would allow to simply mesure the power produced by the e-cat in a incontrovertible fashion, comparing it with the electric power inlet).

    Cordiali Saluti
    Stefano Quattrini

  • Daniel DeMaio

    I envision the loaded material, such as palladium like a candle wick loaded with wax. As the wax burns more wax is absorbed by the wick to replace it.

    Somehow the analogous ‘absorption’ and ‘convection’ factors need to be managed in order to create more stable and efficient LENR processes.

    I’d like to see a dual process: hydrogen -> deuterium -> helium some day.

  • Fred Quimby

    Dear Mr. Rossi, We are all going crazy waiting for your Oct. 28th test results (and we are now sorely disappointed to learn it is a private test). Please please please release public results and footage etc as soon as you can to allow us all to sleep again!

    ….and I think I speak for the whole planet when I say…..Good luck Sir!

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Todd Mc Kissick:
    I do not agree: it is only the destination that counts: every work made without a real result is useless in itself. Until something has to be done, everything that has been done is useless if the conclusive job is not completed. This is why I think that the 1 MW plant, if works, is a real achievement.
    About the Sterling engines and the Carnot cycle, it’s too soon to give data. We are working. So far we have completed the job for heat production. Electric power is the next target.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Todd McKissick

    Dear Andrea,
    Thanks for your reply. I’m glad to hear that you’re covering the Stirling engine option. I believe this to be the solution to mobile applications which depend on compactness. I have a few questions regarding the Stirling tests?

    1. What percent of the Carnot efficiency maximum has been reached with the Stirlings you’ve tested? That or at least what engine efficiency @ what hot and cold temperatures?
    2. What range and response speed has been achieved in turn-down or ramp-up to different outputs?
    3. Can you give any rough price range per output these Stirlings have been in?

    Having been through some of what you’re going through with the critiques, I hope you keep in mind to enjoy the journey. That’s where the fun lies. Not the destination!

    My best,
    Todd

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Todd McKissick:
    We are testing Sterling engines too.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Michael Dasappan

    Dear Mr. Rossi,

    I want to first congratulate you on your invention. Second I want to thank you for your perseverance. The world needs more people like you. I hope that home units will be on sale soon. Can’t wait to get one for my home.

    Warm Regards,
    Michael

  • Todd McKissick

    Mr. Rossi,

    It intrigues me as to why steam is the method of choice for electricity generation. Or is this so? I cannot find any details on future plans although I see Rankine cycle is being suggested. My question is, what is the maximum temperature available from a high temperature friendly configuration? We have developed a new high efficiency Stirling engine that is compact and easy to manufacture, but as you know, the output depends on the delta T provided.

    Do you have any interest in using a 2-3 kW Stirling?

  • Andrea Rossi

    DIAMETER OF THE PIPES
    A Reader, who asked not to publish his comment, asked how the diameter of steam pipes is calculated.
    The steam pipes diameter is a result of the integration of many factors, anyway, we calculated the internal diameters of the 2 pipes which go to the 2 dissipators with the classic formula:
    Di = SQUARE ROOT OF the resulting number from (4 x Q)/(3.14 x V),
    wherein:
    Di= internal diameter of the pipe
    Q= flow rate in cubic meters/s
    V= flow speed in m/s
    A.R.= Andrea Rossi

  • […] power: An overnight revolution How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper? « Journal of Nucl… Nebraska Engineer [Vo]:Analysis by Bob Higgins __________________ The Bill of Rights is a […]

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Brad:
    We are working hard on the steam-to-make -electric-power issue.
    It will take from 1 to 2 years to be ready, but we will get it.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea

  • Brad

    Hi Andrea,

    1. Can you tell us about attempts to use e-cat with a steam engine?

    2. Do you need any volunteers to help with steam engine design, experiments, control, purchasing, etc? I’d be happy to volunteer or gift you a small steam engine if you could use it.

    3. When do you expect small scale electricity generation (1-10Kw) using your products? In many parts of the U.S., utility companies must buy back any user-generated electricity, so there are many of us interested!

    There are a number of interesting steam engines on the web:
    http://www.greensteamengine.com/
    http://tinyurl.com/3fxggp4
    http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/3hppic.htm
    http://www.tinytechindia.com/steampowerplan.htm

    Wishing you success.
    – Brad

    p.s. Is this your web site? http://ecat.com/ or do you know who’s it is?

  • Dear Mr. Rossi,
    I just ran across your development today and I have to say that I’m impressed. It seems to be a very well structured system and I hope for all our sakes, it comes to fruition.

    In order to place this in a home or business, there are a number of external balance of system pieces that would be required. For starters, a heat buffer is needed, a Stirling engine that’s efficient, cost effective and easy to manufacture is needed, variable heat exchangers for input, engine output, building heat output and more would be needed and a control system to monitor and control all the energy transfers to keep everything in balance.

    If you swap your reactor for concentrated solar, these are also the necessary additions needed. That is the system I’m readying for production at this time. I would like to discuss further how my designs, especially our new Stirling engine, could work with your reactor. It’s even possible to use both the LENR with my concentrator for dual benefit.

    Please view the very limited write-up by clicking my name and then contact me (my last name on Gmail) for more information.

    Warm Regards,
    Todd

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Rodney:
    Surely Nyteknik will make a report within few days,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Sir:

    Can you please tell us how soon there will be information available on the internet regarding the upcoming (6 October?) demonstration of your one megawatt unit. And, please, where on the internet should we go to find this information?

    Many thanks. You are doing wonderful work.

  • Nunzio

    Caro Rossi
    E’ ormai da parecchi mesi che seguo il tuo lavoro, con crescente interesse. Sono sicuro che otterrai grandi risultati e penso che li meriti tutti.
    Con grande stima.
    Nunzio Spontella

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Harold Baker,
    We do not use the aerogel, but your comment is very interesting.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Harold Baker

    Dear Professor Rossi
    I have been fascinated by this topic since the ill fated Pons Fleischmann announcement. It is a great shame that this promising field of research has been supppressed for so long. I have spent much time thinking about the possible menchanisms of action myself, but having a background in Chemistry rather than physics, do not understand the nuclear transformation aspect.
    I just had a an idea that might be helpful. Some time ago NASA developed an extremely light material called aerogel. It was created for the purpose of capturing tiny particles from the trails of a comet in outer space. I wondered if the nickel nano particles( together with your secret catalyst) were disseminated evenly throughout a highly porous substrate like aerogel, whether the amount of nano nickel required could be reduced. Also the reaction could be made to consume all of the nickel, rather than just 10%. Unfortunately aerogel is a heat insulator, so that would obviously not work, but a substance with the same extremely fine porous structure, having the ability to conduct heat, and to retain its structural integrity like for example buckyballs (a form of carbon) would be perfect. Hydrogen gas would be free to mix more intimately with the nano sized nickel particles.

    Thank you for your hard work and perseverance.

    Good luck and best wishes

    Harold Baker

  • Petri

    Thanks Rossi… It was just a thought – I’m not a physicist.
    I hope everything goes well with the e-cat.

    -Pete

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Petri:
    Of course no, the amount of copper we produce is totally irrilevant.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • David Shields

    Dear Sir,

    I note that you have decided to fund the process of patent and production yourself via selling your personal home. I wish I was in a position to assist financially as I would do so eagerly.

    This just shows all those nay sayers, how committed you are to this invention. I hope and pray that you get the recognition and funding you require to get this out into the general market and past the closed-minded in your field.

    Best of luck and Kindest Regards
    David Shields

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Ruggero,
    Send a proposal when you are ready,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Jukka Huttunen

    Dear Mr. Rossi

    I saw the NyTeknik video about your 1 MW E-Cat container and I have to say that the video was incredibly interesting to watch. Unfortunately there was one detail that caught my attention. On the back side of the container there was a pipe where the steam emerges out of the container (according to the video).

    If that’s the case, then I must warn you about threaded pipe and valve joints (at least the joints look like they were threaded). I have built some process-steam boiler plants where the steam temperature was typically 140 – 160 C and pressure 3 – 5 bar. For a while there was a serious steam leakage through the threaded joints. Luckily we had only a few threaded joints, so we switched those to welded joints or flange joints with graphite gasket (I recall that we used Klinger PSM graphite gaskets). I have experience that only 1/4″ threaded pipes might seal steam, but pipes 1/2″ and bigger face leakage troubles quite soon and threaded pipes over 1″ are hopeless if speaking about sealment of steam.

    If you have not tested your threaded steampipes very carefully, I recommed to do some 24 – 48 h steam leakage test to threaded pipes. If the information in NyTeknik video was correct (and the pipe is not the hotwater pipe) I wish this tip will help you avoid similar problems that I have faced.

    And I wish you the best of luck with you project and forth coming demonstration!

    Best Regards,

    Jukka Huttunen

  • ruggero

    egr. Dr.Rossi,
    lavoro nel settore delle biomasse e stiamo mettendo a punto una piccola (anche nelle dimensioni) turbina ORC che funziona dai 3 kw elettrici, e per ora sino ai 100 kwe, sebbene se le ns esperienze siano di impianti da 3MWe con turbine a vapore.
    Le temperature necessarie per il funzionamento di questi piccoli turbogeneratori sono quelle appena al di sopra dell’ebollizione di acqua o anche più basse con uno speciale fluido organico.
    Ritengo che ci sia un’esigenza di mercato, soprattutto in Europa ed in Italia nello specifico, per la conversione elettrica dell’energia termica prodotta dal suo interessante reattore.
    Propongo un’interconnessione tra le due soluzioni per il mercato retail e piccole aziende.
    ringrazio per la risposta anche diretta se crede.
    auguri cmq
    Ruggero

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Adriano Z.:
    November.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • adriano z.

    Preg.mo Ing Rossi,
    quando pensa di essere in grado di mettere
    in funzione il 1° impianto da 1 MW,
    Nel mese di Novembre , ho letto, sembra ormai
    vicina; la commercial issue verrà affidata
    ad altra entità . Nei mesi di giu lug le scrisse del ns interesse ai suoi pregetti.
    Grazie per l’informazione .
    Cordiali saluti e buon lavoro
    adriano z.

  • Michael K.

    Dear Mr.Rossi,
    I’m very impressed about your E-cat reactor. Like chemical engineer I understand the big theoretical and practical difficulties what your work encounter. I work in Transilvania in energetical field and I would like to use your equipment, commercially of course (I work with biodiesel too). Good luck!!
    Best regards,
    Michael K.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Nathaniel:
    You are 14 years old: thank you very much for your interest in this matter. My suggestion, due to your age, is that you now think mainly to your education, dedicating the main part of your time to study what you have to at school. Life is very hard, competition is very hard in every field, education is a necessary asset to compete at a maximum level, which is, as I understand, what you want to do. I suggest you to focus on what your teachers explain to you and to study at least 5 hours per day, plus the hours of lesson at school; at your age is better if you do not focus on a single matter, but on all the matters, of course dedicating more time to the matters you prefer, but studying also the others. Our field of Physics (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions) is very complicated and I do not suggest to you to focus on this now: it is like try to run before being able to walk. A last suggestion: if you spare free time from your stuy, make a sport, possibly with agonism.
    Dreams not filled up with real education and preparation are a loss of time.
    Thank you again for your delighting interest to our work, and :
    Good Luck!
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi

  • Nathaniel

    Dear Mr Rossi

    I am extremely intrested in cold fusion research, but I am limited because of lack of resources. I have done extensive research and have contacted a person at the southwest research institute in USA(Texas). I would like a reply and maybe an e-mail address. Your work has really spiked my intrest levels in this nearly impossible field of physics. Please write back to me and I hope we meet sometime in the near future considering I might become world-known in about 10-20 years from now.
    P.S. I am only 14 haha. And I wish to go to the most prestigious

  • Andrea

    Hello, if you need protoype testers I am located in Padova. 🙂

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Stephen Howard:
    We will assess commercial issues in November.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Stephen Howard

    I’m curious what pricing you will have for production models for home use or whether that is part of the planned production. Best Regards and Well Wishes
    Stephen from KY.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Paolo:
    We make in Italy R&D, the manufacturing is in the USA.
    About the other question: Leibniz, the great phylosopher-mathematician of the eighteenth century, used to say that there is always the better possible world, considering the actual possibilities in the place under consideration…
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Paolo

    Dear Mr Rossi,
    I have been following your story and you experimentation with lot of interest and I hope sincerely you will succeed commercializing your machine.
    I work for in the oil industry in a foreign county and I have a personal question for you, do you think our Italy still have reasons to hope for better government, still have the reason to hope that the good part of it with is very wide even if not noise will succeed? Did you at least try to produce your machine in Italy?

    Best regards

    Paolo

  • Andrea Rossi

    Caro Angelo Corbas:
    In novembre avremo le idee più chiare in merito alla nostra strategia commerciale globale.
    Cari saluti,
    A.R.

  • Angelo Corbas

    Gentile Andrea Rossi, mi scuso per l’italiano, non conosco l’inglese cosi’ da poter scrivere, sono un medico greco e desidererei essere uno dei primi ad installare l’ e-cat in casa mia. Lei dice che a novembre iniziera’ la commercializzazione dell’ apparecchio. Dove si potra’ trovare?
    Grazie anche della sua idea meravigliosa.

    ange1096@otenet.gr

  • I wish more people would write sites like this that are actually interesting to read. With all the garbage floating around on the web, it is rare to read a site like yours instead.

  • Ed

    Dear MR. Rossi

    You are diving into a $%#t storm run by trillion dollar manipulators.

    License a large reputable manufacturer in China (you cannot out produce them anyway). They will aggressively protect the license from imitators, which in turn protects you.
    Jobs may be able to help you with this, if he still has time, so act quickly.

    Your talents are better served to focus on further developments and you will be happier. Otherwise the BS will be over your nose and you will get tired standing on your toes.

    Just a though….

    Warm Regards & Best of Luck
    Ed
    JOOTB

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear A.Th.Lilie:
    In November we will start the commercialization.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Dear Mr. Rossi,
    i am very impressed about what i have read before.
    We are preparing the construction of a “energy plus house” in Uruguay and it would be wonderful using one of your equipment.
    When it could be possible ?
    Best regards
    Axel

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear David Mc Cloud: I can’t give info regarding the charge.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

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