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by
F Henry-Couannier
Centre de Physique des Particules de Marseille
July 1, 2012
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Abstract
We investigate whether Dark Gravity theories (DG) with two conjugate metrics gμν and g‾μν =ημρ ηνλ gˆρλ where ημρ is supposed to be a background non dynamical and flat metric or an auxiliary field, actually predicted the occurrence of apparently superluminal propagations (from our metric side gμν point of view) such as the one recently reported by the Opera experiment. We find that indeed such theories could predict the order of magnitude of the superluminal velocity and even explain the apparent conflict with the SN1987 normal neutrino speeds provided the neutrinos are able to oscillate between the two conjugate metrics while propagating in a dense medium. We then explain the theoretical motivations and explore all possible phenomenological consequences of the field discontinuities naturally expected in some Dark Gravity theories. Since the Opera result was not confirmed, these discontinuities do not actually allow a propagation of neutrinos oscillating between the two conjugate metrics.
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Dear Andrea,
Congratulations on today’s announcement from Industrial Heat LLC about them acquiring E-Cat technology. How do you feel now the news has been made public? http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/press-release-industrial-heat-has-acquired-andrea-rossis-e-cat-technology/
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
Andrea:
Does your current work focus on the effect or the device?
Many times a progress of learning begs a multiple of new questions to be answered. Do you find this to be the case or is there light at the end of the tunnel?
Michael Schneider:
Interesting. Honestly, I am not an expert of batteries, maybe you are right.
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi,
Are you in contact with electro chemists working in the very well funded and proactive field of battery research ? Some experiences and know how could maybe be of interest like for instance charge algorithms ? See here : http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/26331.aspx
Could we say that battery and Lenr science are sister fields of research and material science knowledge developing fast in one field could come handy to understand Lenr ?
Kind regards,
Michael
Frank Acland:
The low temperature 1 MW plants can be used to dry agricultural products.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
You may be aware that there is a shortage of propane in the United States at the moment, pushing prices up, and making distribution difficult in this very cold winter. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/us/propane-amid-high-prices-and-bitter-cold.html?_r=0)
One reason cited for the shortage of propane was that so much of it was used to dry grain during the harvest this year (there was high moisture content in the grain). Do you see E-Cat supplied heat in grain drying as an early application of your technology?
Many thanks,
Frank Acland
Steven N Karels:
Same answer as to Martyn Aubrey,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Martyn Aubrey:
This information will be given when we will have completed our R&D work.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Dr. Rossi,
In my earlier post I said:
“The question in my mind is “What is the limit of heat production that can be generated by a single Mouse-Cat pair and still keep to a stable 1,100 degrees C?”.”
One way to test this idea could be to build the largest possible practical heat sink and connect it to the e-cat.
It would be interesting to see if the e-cat could maintain the 1,100 degree C temperature level whilst supplying the extra power generated into the very large load.
Kind Regards,
Martyn Aubrey
Walter Gentili ( Curiosone):
Yes, but this phenomenon is far to have been indagated exhaustively, yet.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
UseYourBrain:
I think so,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Andrea Moraitis:
It does not depend on me
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi,
A while back, you have reported that you were putting up a robotized production facility for your reactors. Could you tell us if this project is meanwhile completed, so that you could start production soon after the testing and validation program is finished?
Best regards,
Andreas Moraitis
Steven,
I think that you are largely right.
Regarding your thought about “with a better heat transfer mechanism, could (the eCat) run at a higher temperature and therefore produce more power?” I think that the system would work slightly differently, in that the temperature would be held at a stable 1,100 degrees C by the control system, but the increased heat feedback between the Mouse and the Cat could increase the power output up to the level which could be absorbed by the load.
A parallel example would be two AC mains generator sets, one at 10kVA and one at 20kVA, the second has twice the power capacity of the first, yet both provide a constant voltage output in the 220-240V range (depending on the voltage standards in various countries).
I think that the e-cat could provide a range of power outputs in the form of heat, and yet keep a stable temperature output over this range.
Assuming that I understand the feedback mechanism reasonably well, then the feedback would always try to push the heat output upwards if not constrained by some limitation. The limitation in an e-cat would be the adjustment of the Mouse COP (or the distance between the Mouse and the Cat) to reduce the heat feedback level and prevent thermal-runaway.
The question in my mind is “What is the limit of heat production that can be generated by a single Mouse-Cat pair and still keep to a stable 1,100 degrees C”.
No doubt that is a question Andrea is trying to answer too.
Kind Regards,
Martyn
Martyn Aubrey
Another way of looking at this is the total power the eCat is generating. If the eCat can generate 10 kW of power (ignoring the input power due to COP considerations), the outside temperature of the eCat will increase until the power leaving the eCat equals the power being generated. In an open air environment, it appears Andrea Rossi has a system that increases to about 1,100C which using The Thermal Wizard indicates around 10kW heat flow.
By adding an active heat transfer mechanism that can transfer power better than air convection and radiation, the outside eCat skin temperature will decrease until equilibrium is achieved.
I assume your belief is that the eCat, with a better heat transfer mechanism, could run at a higher temperature and therefore produce more power? Is this essentially correct?
Here, we get into the application engineering issues. For steam electricity generation, the current technology wants steam around 600C because of material limitations. So in this application, the eCat would still be limited by temperature.
Perhaps Andrea Rossi might comment on whether a nominal 10kW eCat unit can produce substantially higher sustained power output by using a more effective heat transfer system? I would suspect there is a “sweet zone” where the eCat works best for different eCat surface temperatures.
Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:
I understand it is not your duty as a chief scientist, but to you think that after the end of the third party measurements the plans for the commercialization of the E-Cats in big scale will begin?
A.R.:
Did you find direct production of electric energy made by the photons inside the reactor?
Martyn Aubrey:
Your conclusion is right.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Hi Steven,
Thanks for the Thermal Wizard website info, it looks very comprehensive and useful.
I take your point, and agree, about the heat from the e-cats in the previous tests being almost totally transferred by convection and by thermal radiation into the local surroundings.
I also think that we would all agree that in a complete working system there is always the need to get the useful heat out of the e-cat reactor (i.e. the Cat, as the Mouse only acts as a driver and controller for the Cat reactor) and into the place where it can do useful “work” such as boiling water for steam or heating oil for heat transfer to other systems.
My main concern was that during the current testing, that the control system would restrict the Mouse drive so that the Cat would only produce just sufficient heat to maintain the 1100 degree stable temperature, and would not be pushed to provide the extra power to drive a full load.
The output power measured would not have reflected the full capability of the e-cat to drive a real load, and would have been misleadingly low, which would be unfair on Andrea and his team.
However, Andrea says that “The former heat is irradiated and conveyed” which I take to mean that the heat is dissipated externally and not allowed to build up in the reactors, so I think my concern was unnecessary, which is always good news!
All the best,
Martyn
Change:
“the room environment using conduction and by thermal radiation”
to
“the room environment using convection and by thermal radiation” Sorry
Martyn Aubrey,
As I understand the current eCat testing, the functioning eCat is on top of a structure where it is open to the room environment. As you may recall from your Thermal engineering Heat transfer course, there are three mechanisms for heat transfer, by conduction, by convection and by radiation. In the eCat configuration, there is little metal-to-metal surface to facilitate conductive transfer so the predominant mechanisms are by radiation and convection. I suggest The Thermal Wizard website, specifically the natural conduction for the horizontal cylinder case. This provides a good estimate of eCat thermal heat flow. Just enter the eCat dimensions and the surface temperature, etc.
In radio work, the coupling of the transmitted power to the antenna is very important. In this case, the heat flows into the room environment using conduction and by thermal radiation.
Martyn Aubrey:
The former heat is irradiated and conveyed.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dave Lafleur:
Yes, we are considering this, but the efficiency is still very low.
Warm regards,
A.R.
Frank Acland:
Yes, it will be published after the report of the third indipendent party.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
You had mentioned that you would publish an internal report of your own internal long-term testing at some point. Is this still scheduled?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
Have your considered using absorbtion refrigeration to enhance the Seebeck effect? It is ironic that a gas refrigerator uses a flame. You have an e-cat that provides heat- if you boiled ammonia instead of water to create a refrigerator you would have the key ingedients for the seebeck effect- hot and cold.
Dear Dr. Rossi,
In your recent reply to Steven N. Karels you said “We are working also to increase the power density.” and to Frank Acland that this “is an extremely alluring issue.”
Also, in your reply to Frank’s earlier question about “testing of the hot cat with turbines to generate electricity”, you answered “Not yet. We are continuing our R&D and validation work and we will pass to the coupling with turbines when we will have consolidated positive results at the end of this R&D and validation stage.”
Reply to Steven on January 17th, 2014 at 5:24 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=838&cpage=2#comment-902035
Reply to Frank on January 18th, 2014 at 10:21 AM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=838&cpage=2#comment-902505
Reply to Frank on January 11th, 2014 at 1:36 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=838&cpage=1#comment-898416
The simplest way to increase the power density in any particular size of reactor would be to ensure that you get the maximum power output available for that reactor.
If I understand correctly from your replies, I think that you are testing the Hot Cat reactors in isolation, and not connecting them to any form of load at this stage of the R&D.
I think that testing the working e-cat without a valid load may be causing problems with the power output.
By design, the control system limits the temperature of the heat generated by the e-cat reactors to a stable working level (1100 degrees Celsius, as you said to me).
As the Cat reactor gets hotter, the feedback gain is reduced to limit the overall heat(power) output, but still bring the reactor up to a good stable working temperature.
However, as the Cat reactor temperature reaches the working level, the reduced feedback means that little new heat is produced, only sufficient to replace any heat lost to the surrounding air and still maintain the target temperature.
Because the older heat remains inside the system, this old heat is effectively blocking the production of any substantial amount of new heat.
To overcome this blockage you would need to closely approach a state of Maximum Forward Transmitted Power. The freshly generated heat would need to be sent onward to the load immediately it is produced in the reactor.
When the currently produced heat is transmitted onwards, the reactor is able to produce further new heat, which will then itself be sent onwards to the load. The older heat will be replaced by newer heat and the sequence will continue.
Speaking from the perspective of being a former Radio Technician (having worked on high power HF and VHF mobile and static radio systems), I tend to think of the e-cat as being part of a power amplifier system, such as a high power radio transmitter.
In a radio transmitter system, the correctly matched load (the antenna) is just as important as the radio transmitter itself. The antenna takes up the RF power generated by the radio transmitter and propagates it away from the radio so that the signal can travel through the atmosphere and be received at the distant receiver(s).
If the load is not connected properly or is incorrectly tuned (the wrong antenna impedance) and therefore mismatched, the transmitter will not be able to correctly transfer the generated RF power from the transmitter into the load, and the radio front-end amplifier will overheat at best, and may well be damaged – this may sound familiar in the context of the e-cat.
Even when testing radios in a workshop environment, a transmitter would always be connected to an impedance matched “dummy load” for correct operation. I believe that a similar principle should apply to your tests of the e-cat reactors.
In the case of the e-cat, if the reactors are tested without a load, most of the generated heat will remain inside the reactor and overheat it. The high temperature will be achieved, but little usable power generated.
The current system under test could be thought of as being a High Temperature, but Low Power, configuration. (Think of the equivalent electrical circuit where you could have a High Voltage output, but correspondingly Low Current output, device.)
If the heat generated is extracted from the Cat reactor using a suitable heat exchanger and transferred into the load, the power generated will be transmitted onwards and usable. The subsequent new heat generated by the Cat reactor will not just be trying to further heat an already hot reactor, with nowhere for the extra power to go.
With a dummy load connected, the heat from the e-cat under test would be absorbed and then dissipated into the local atmosphere or into some form of calibrated heat sink.
If you have a suitable heat absorbing load attached to the Hot Cat, when you increase the cop of the Mouse, the power generated by the Cat should increase and be transferred efficiently to the working load, and thus the overall power available from the e-cat should increase.
Please also look again at “The Maximum Power Transfer Theorem” in the context of Line Transmission and consider how this could apply to Power Systems, such as the e-cat.
I hope this is relevant and useful.
Kind Regards,
Martyn Aubrey
The Future Power Generation with MHD Generators
Magneto Hydro Dynamic generation…
http://www.irdindia.in/Journal_IJAEEE/PDF/Vol2_Iss6/16.pdf
Steven N. Karels:
1- yes
2- yes
3- confidential
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi,
1. For the 1MW eCat unit, can we correctly assume that the eCat module(s) are in one physical unit and the electronics are located in a separate unit in a more temperature controlled environment?
2. This still leaves some form of control within the high temperature eCat module which is apparently more than a resistance heater plus temperature sensors. Is this essentially correct?
3. Care to comment on the difficulty of designing and implementing the other control elements within the high temperature eCat module(s)?
Frank Acland:
As you klnow, it is premature any anticipation. I can say we are working with strong efforts on this issue, but, still, the results could be positive or negative. The energy density is an extremely alluring issue.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
You mention that you’re working on improving power density — have you had success in doing this?
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
Robert Curto:
Thank you!
A.R.
Steven N. Karels:
We are working also to increase the power density.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
John L.:
America, Europe, Asia.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Mr. Orsobubu
As a kid in one of the countries under totalitarian regime, at school they explained to us the difference between capitalism and communism.
For example. To win election the capitalist, shoes factory owner will give to voters one shoes, promising to give the another one after he will win the election.
But it happened in the area I lived that, the communist candidate for the government was promising to the peoples:
We will build road for you, firehouse, bridge….
Then, one man got up and asked. Comrade, we don’t need bridge, we don’t have river.
Don’t worry, we will build river too.:))
Andrea,
Could you name those 3 continents where the Authors come from?
Thanks
Dear Andrea Rossi,
A year or so ago, you were suggesting a 1MW eCat unit in a container with a volume of 1 cubic meter. Any updates on projected volume for a hypothetical 1MW eCat?
Dr. Rossi, I just wanted to make a few comments.
I love the way you went to F to answer LilyLover.
I also liked the gull story, about the gulls sitting on
the Beach waiting for the gull to catch a fish.
Sad to say there are humans that sit on their………
Bench, waiting until some hard working person discovers
something, then they try to steal it !
Also it seems to me that ordinary readers have taken
back our website.
For a while there was a small group of very intelligent people
debating something that was way over my head.
Robert
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
USA
P.S. I am also glad you were able to take a little break,
and take a walk along Miami Beach.
Bernie Koppenhofer:
Interesting question. As far as I know no devices appeared in the horizon that could make thermoelectric generation with the Seebeck Effect in an economically viable way, but I am alert on the issue. If something will arrive in this field I think will be from Russia: there are the best brains working on this matter. A dove told me this ( “from Russia with dove”).
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dr Rossi: Heat to electricity: I know you have researched this technology in the past, has anything
changed to make it more conceivable for use with the E-Cat? Thanks.
Giuliano Bettini:
That will not depend on me, I suppose ( and underline “suppose”) end of March or something around it for end of tests; as for the publication of the report, it will depend on the time of the peer reviewing, which I don’t think will take too long, due to the importance of the results, either positive or negative as they might be, and the number, the level and the internationality of the Authors, who come from 3 Continents.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi:
I do not remember, maybe you have already posted about it:
when the R&D plan should end?
Is there a timetable?
Thanks
Giuliano Bettini.
Koen Vandewalle:
Industrialization will make prices more affordable, maintainance will have to be made by professionals. The other issues are under R&D and validation process.
Security is always an issue.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
Do you still feel threatened ?
I hope hundreds of billions are invested in E-Cat.
Money will be worth nothing when our children have no longer a viable world.
I cannot remember having payed my parents for giving birth to me (perhaps some smile). Neither did I pay for my education or school. I should not pay for that: A lot of what they told me was uncomplete, and it took of me the best years of my life to recursively consolidate all insights. Even these can be right or wrong, depending on the next recursion.
Two things, at least, are valuable for ourselves: our time and our reputation. Both are given to us, and determined by us at the same time. It would be wrong if they were stolen from us for money.
For now, back to business: we need a low-cost, high performance (COP), maintenance-free, easy to control, feasible to integrate with the existing, cradle-to-cradle energy source. Are these also your goals ?
Kind Regards,
Koen
Bernie Koppenhofer:
I answered Yesterday.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Bernie Koppenhofer:
Your comments have always been published, when they arrived to me. If some has not, it is because our automatic robot has put them in the spam for some reason. If so, I can do nothing about it. When a comment of yours is not published, just send it to my personal email: info@leonardocorp1996.com
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Orsobubu:
As you know, I do not agree with you, but, paraphrasing what Oscar Wild said, ” I will fight to death to defend your sincere passion with which you sustain your ideas”.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Luca:
No evidence of hydrinos have ever been seen.
As far as I know.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Steven N. Karels:
Within good-sense shaped limits, yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.