Analysis of the performances of sealed timing resistive plate chambers

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by
Khokon Hossen
Max-Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics, 69117 Heidelberg, Germany
E-mail: khokon.pme@gmail.com
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Resistive Plate Chambers (RPCs), that were introduced by R. Santonico and R. Cardarelli in 1981, are gas ionization chambers made with resistive electrodes separated by precision spacers.
Typical gas gap range from a few hundred micrometers to several millimeters wide.
Timing Resistive Plate Chambers (tRPCs) were introduced in 2000 by P.Fonte, A.Smirnitsky and M.C.S Williams and has, since then, reached Time Resolutions better than 50 ps (σ) with efficiencies above 99% for Minimum Ionizing Particle (MIP).
In this research work, we describe the main features of gas detectors and the different types of RPCs and their properties.
We describe a cheap and easy to built sealed tRPCs and we explain how we have built it.
We describe the main results we have got operating the sealed tRPCs built in the laboratory.

856 comments to Analysis of the performances of sealed timing resistive plate chambers

  • Fyodor

    Mr. Rossi

    I hope that you’re well and had a good weekend.

    I had a question about the more mundane aspects of how the home heater E-cat would work in practice. I understand from the pictures that the 1MW factory has some sort of pump system that moves heat exchange fluid through the reactors. Would it work the same way in a home system? Or would it be able to radiate directly into some sort of air flow?

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

  • Andrea Rossi

    David Nygren:
    I am looking at all these replications of the Lugano test with great interest.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Hi Rossi
    In April, Alexander Parkhomov wrote a few lines about a conversation you had over Skype.
    https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://lenr.seplm.ru/articles/doklad-na-iccf19-ag-parkhomova

    There, he also mentions that the Uppsala group makes its own attempts.
    Can you comment on something around this?

    / David Nygren –
    http://www.lenr-forum.com

  • Andrea Rossi

    Steven N. Karels:
    To listen the different possible “voices” of the E-Cat I use the stethoscope, putting it upon specific points designed for it. I prefer to avoid intrusive devices, for many reasons.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Steven N. Karels

    Dear Andrea Rossi,

    With al the independent experiments proceeding on the so called Rossi Effect, do you think it would be interesting to place an acoustic microphone within the reactor (removed far enough to be thermally isolated but acoustically close enough) to listen to “micro-explosions” as the effect occurs?

    Have you tried this on your experiments?

  • Andrea Rossi

    Kurt Reinsfelder:
    Thank your appreciated opinion, but still remember that the tests and R&D on the 1 MW E-Cat are on course and the final results could be either positive or negative.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Kurt Reinsfelder

    Dr A.Rossi:
    The so called Rossi effect as of today has been already replicated by the following scientists or specialized institutions: Dr Parkhomov ( Russia), Brian Ahern ( USA), the Professors ( in Physics) that made for 6 months the Lugano experiment, the MFMP, the Chinese scientist Songsheng Jiang of the China Institute of the Atomic Energy; your 1 MW E-Cat is working in the factory of a customer in the USA and is making an actual industrial production: now it’s time that the so called Rossi Effect is considered one of the most important inventions of the last hundred years.
    Godspeed, Dr Rossi,
    Kurt

  • Andrea Rossi

    Fantastic.
    Congratulations!
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea just finished reviewing strip charts of MFMP test & can definitely confirm approximate generation of 40% excess (ssm) LERN bases power trace shown in station strip carts! Will be glad to share them with you & MFMP tomorrow as I am kind of tired now having been working on this all day till the alarm went off an hour or so ago. Very obvious LENR was present. I know you will be happy to hear this & it would put some solid information in front of our engineering friends. As always your friend. This is a great profession we have chosen & that gives us such great pleasure.

    Jim

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Very interesting update, thanks.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Robert Curto:
    You said a real thing: I learnt from my mother, when I was a kid, that rarely a situation is so bad not to have a comic side if you look at it even with auto-irony ( or self-irony, I am not sure which is the right version). This helps to stay cold when the play gets hard. The secret stays in not taking the self too seriously, always taking the work very seriously. In a nutshell: we are not God, but God gave us things to do.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    About 8:30 MFMP lost control with PID & I think we got a hazard trip from controller. Had a rough calculated (ssm) LENR power contribution of about 40% initially, maybe there were some doubter but I wasn’t among-st them, but then again I don’t know much about their system design where I feel comfortable.

    As far as I could tell they tried 3 100 C run backs from about 800 C with appropriate holds and got the hazard trip on the third set on way down. Must wait for their post test review. Looked to me like they ran into a lot of thermal energy going back down ramp, maybe much more than from thermal storage in system metals, just maybe an LENR generation process that didn’t want to give up the connection very quickly to meet fuzzy controller operation space & controller then shut down system. View from my desk was very limited & I can only give my biased opinion right now, but there are a lot of bright young engineers there now working out the details. Actually I thought the run backs were a good idea except I prefer manual steps in input power so we can better examine all process dynamics. Enjoyed watching though & reminded me of my days with the Rover Nuclear Rocket program with simulation, field testing, data acquisition & control analysis system testing & post test review teams I had the privilege to be on. We did the dynamic testing with step inputs or pulse trains into the system primary actuators & extracted complete system identification information with state of the art techniques at that time & nonlinear model pre-test predictions, etc.

    We sure do a lot of reflection as we get older, No Andrea?

    Best regards
    Jim
    Post test analysis will be interesting to say the least. All in all I thought test director Alan did a great job!

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Yes, you are right, I am following their work with interest.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea little update info on MFMP test at 6:45 pm EST
    “Glow looks similar to Denis Vasilenko’s recent test where 15 second period was noted on his fuel elements glow just before thermal failure. I don’t believe his controller had the fuzzy logic determining PID controllers prop, rate & derivative set parameters. He also did not have manual control of the output signal to power supply system same as with MFMPs controller now. He also could not reach 1250 C set point on temperature control because of what I believe was negative effect of (ssm) LENR power generation putting controller in classical limit cycle with no way to proceed & tube failed.”
    Jim
    PS Will be an interesting night for Alan & crew. Some very smart, young engineers over there being trained in real time testing you might be interested in for further work with your organization. I was impressed with their innovation, knowledge, quick responses, cooperation, friendliness & mainly work ethic like yours which I so much admire.

  • Robert Curto

    Dr. Rossi, I love your response to Hank Mills.
    You have a great sense of humor.
    I am sure it has helped you out of some difficult situations.
    Robert Curto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

  • Andrea Rossi

    Hank Mills:
    Thank you for your insight. As you know, I cannot comment, but the work of this Chinese Scientist is very interesting.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Thank you for the update.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Hank Mills

    I think I’ve discovered something significant in the data from the Chinese test by Songsheng Jiang. I would be very interested in your thoughts. I understand though you probably cannot say anything.

    First, in the Chinese data, Fig. 7a, at 10:00 the voltage to the resistor is increased dramatically (hence total power and current).

    Next, the thermocouple touching the outside of the innermost reactor chamber (composed of nickel) shoots up almost instantly in temperature like a rocket.

    However, at this same moment, the thermocouple between the resistor and steel reactor chamber only more slowly increases in temperature – dramatically lagging behind the thermocouple that is much closer to the actual fuel and registering a soaring increase beyond what the thermocouple can register.

    Hence, I think, perhaps in error, this means that something that can act almost instantly is stimulating reactions in the fuel. This cannot be the heat of the resistor, due to its slower rise and then the thermal barrier of steel between it and the fuel.

    I propose it is possible this is strong evidence of a change in magnetic field stimulating a burst of heat. Why? Because with DC current the magnetic field only changes from a steady state when the voltage (hence current) is reduced or increased. So the bump of an increasing magnetic field may have been the main stimulus of this burst rather than the slower, lagging heat. Simply put, this burst of heat in the core could not have taken place so fast if its stimulus was primarily increasing heat from the resistor. The fast traveling (C or speed of light) magnetic field is the stimulator in this burst.

    I’ll shut up now. As always, thank you for all your hard work. Spending so many hours a day, everyday, in the plant is a huge sacrifice.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea at 5:53 new step test plan At estimated 30% (ssm) LENR power estimate right now & 728 C starting for 810 C

    “MFMP test director – Alan – a few seconds ago In about 5 minutes I’ll ramp up to 810 C and hold it there for one hour. After that I’ll reduce the set point in steps of 100 C and hold long enough at each to get stable readings.”

    Should be very interesting to see thermal response. I think Alan did some step response about here when calibrating unfueled element pretest. Let see if we can see something in dynamics attributable to presence of LENR. Hope he does step test back up to a temperature point. Hope fully will upset (ssm) LENR process enough to see some interesting dynamics & in conservative directions for the fuel element. To bad we do not have optical camera to look down pressure sensor tube at the fuel reaction chamber – could we see upsets in micro explosions thought to exist in LENR power generation mechanistic. Will we extinguish LENR flame &/or reignite it & note that in the thermal response? I will watch this with utmost interest and get back to you Andrea, things seem to be really popping as of late. Chinese came in today with claim of (ssm) LENR seen in their test reactor of somewhat different construction referred to in your blog.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    I am very glad of this successful replication.
    Congeatulations,
    Warm Regards
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    andrea quick update on MFMP test this afternoon at 2:29 EST via copy of test chat log:

    We could put a video camera probe in the pressure tube & watch for micro burst of LENR reaction & maybe even video tap them for utube then, No?

    20:19:54 We could zero suppress a high resolution pressure transducer in that tube also & evaluate spectrum as we move up & down the temperature ramp ending mine & speculation by others, No?

    20:26:25 Personally I have patiently waited a long time for fusion to solve the worlds problems. I have watched in disgust politicians squander lives of my compatriots. One of my favorite songs was & still is “I don’t believe in if anymore” by the great voice of Roger Whittaker https://youtu.be/AY-2einPmd4

    20:28:19 Great 30 % excess power just maybe at 720 C

    20:34:57 On the other side of the coin is it possible we have more than 30 % excess power right now. Looks to me like LENR wants to play with us longer which would be more fun!

    Sharing this log with our engineering compatriot Andrea whose tenacious work ethic makes possible us being here today with ssm LENR based power, I think & hope for ours & our grand children’s futures & peace in the world & Andrea’s wish to speed up the cure of cancer in our humanity & surly in children.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Frank Acland:
    Thank you, very interesting. They are making a very good job, as it appears to me.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Frank Acland

    Dear Andrea,

    Some people enjoy watching live data from LENR tests as much as watching a sports game. If you are one of those, you might enjoy looking at this spreadsheet of the MFMP test going on now: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ODbN9Oq6Pjyp9A61hdX0-fBJIXBBKMk7Ei06PzTc-Q/edit#gid=1291075296

    It’s updated every 15 minutes.

    Kind regards,

    Frank Acland

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Thank you for keeping me updated of all these developments. Very interesting.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Hank Mills:
    I didn’t find a trout enough large, so the penalty is put on hold. The Supreme Court wouldn’t approve another kind of club, because it could be uncostitutional. So you are safe. So far.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Hank Mills

    Dear Andrea,

    I hate asking this, because I know you probably cannot answer and will have to politely say you cannot disclose such information. But the big question now seems to be if a reactor must have low pressure (perhaps below atmospheric) for high levels of excess heat to show up. We will all figure this out eventually, but a significant amount of work (trial and error testing) could be avoided if Industrial Heat would allow you to give out a couple sentences on the topic.

    Please feel free to club me now with a large trout.

    Hank

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea good morning! MFMP test temperature now at 680 C & holding about 20% excess ssm power contribution to fuel element total energy input. Nice 2 second glowing pulsation noticeable in fueled & not fueled elements caused by PID controller which has a fuzzy tuning algorithm playing with proportional, rate & derivative settings while controller is controlling external power to meet set point demand! There is no manual control with this controller so they have to be very careful at higher ssm contributions to total power where controller inherently loses control due to ssm content. Sure fuzzy logic control will be defeated when too much ssm is present. Well off to breakfast in a few minutes – stayed up until 2 AM watching the ramp up in power. Take care & have a good day, Jim Just thought you would be interested in the MFMP progress from another engineers point of view!

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Again, congratulations to the Group of MFMP and good luck to all of them!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.
    P.S.
    I saw in a fresh comment that Silvio Caggia has asked you to link with him: I just want to inform you that he is a nice guy, working in collaboration with the Italian blog 22Passi directed by Daniele Passerini, who with enthusiasm is sustaining LENR since 2010. They are good people. This note of mine has not been solicited and is a spontaneous reference.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea up to 650 C and LENR self regulationn power is still with MFMP testers. Took a little set back when they started the ramp increase again, but that is how I suspect you may shut down a module in ssm operation by sudden power increase to disrupt process & then trip power. It looks to me like thermal temperature into the neutron generation process at the Ni surface & Li isotope contribution work just like control rods in a regular nuclear plant moving ultra low momentum neutron flux in this case to up or down in response to thermal heat by radiation to environment, just an educated, I think guess on my part. The guys are doing a great job at MFMP & if you need any help they are getting a lot of good experience with the process you developed. Jim Keep up the good work!

  • silvio caggia

    @James Rovnak
    Can you link please?
    Thanks

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Congratulations !
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea MFMP Alan in hold at about 600 C with demonstrable LENR energy present in ssm content on ramp up. What a great day for world duplicating the Rossi effect. Thank you Andrea you who have made a nuclear engineers dream come true. He has no manual control available to him on his PID controller so I told him to be careful in proceeding as the closer he gets to total power by ssm the more danger in PID mode of destroying fuel element due to thermal excursion. Thanks again, you have deserved that Nobel & it hopefully will be soon. Say hello to Parkhomov & his beautiful grand daughter for me when you meet.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Robert Curto:
    Thank you for the interesting link,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    I am sorry, but I cannot give further information.
    Good luck!
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    Giovanni Guerrini:
    Thank you for the link.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea getting some nice thermal divergence now at 600 C at MFMP test today. Just had an idea of putting spectrum analyzer on pressure measuring analog signal to look directly at LENR process when it starts playing with us again? Sure information obtained & analyzed will be useful for your development purposes also. Great fun today but miss the innovative graphics videos me356 presented on his test. Real problem today seeing actual traces – almost driving me blind. Had to rely on others and manually updated spread sheets to see where we were and are headed. Would like to see them settle in one of you ssm points. Love your blog & all its subcontractors – have learned much & truly appreciate the opportunity to have such access to you & your thinking processes. Jim

  • Giovanni Guerrini

    Dr Rossi

    Andrea,you could use a stethoscope for engines http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stetoscopio+motori&qpvt=stetoscopio+motori&qpvt=stetoscopio+motori&FORM=IGRE

    if “her” agrees,of course !

    Regards G G

  • Robert Curto

    Dr. Rossi, if you and your Readers want to read about Global Energy, Google
    HOW DARK MATTER AND NANOTECHNOLOGY CAN HELP TRANSFORM THE GOBAL ENERGY SYSTEM
    Click on the first link.
    Robert Curto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida

  • Andrea Rossi

    Koen Vandewalle:
    I did not talk of E-Cats matrix, I talked of the sounds matrix built empirically with the stethoscope, that is the same for all the E-Cats and is not connected with the industrial manufacturing issues, but with the R&D process.
    Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    I agree.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Koen Vandewalle

    Andrea,
    I hope that not every single e-cat reactor has her own matrix, but that mechanical and electrical (near) identical units can use the same, or nearly the same.
    Reverse engineering seems impossible or at least very expensive or taking very long times, without the matrix.
    Overall an inexpensive way and a very efficient way to make the controls.

    To be honest, I’m a little disappointed that the matrix has to be assembled empirically. Maybe, in future, nuclear scientists and informatics together may develop models to generate optimized controls.

    Kind Regards,
    Koen

  • Andrea Rossi

    Italo R.:
    The use of the stethoscope belongs to the R&D process, nothing to do with normal operation that our Customers will do. The control system will make everything authomatic. I understand it was a joke from you, but it is opportune to make this precisation.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea a good engineer uses every asset available to him even the stethoscope as our doctors do to look at our health. We work with process & machines that make noises when they are troubled or performing or not performing properly. A good sound properly filtered/or even unfiltered can even be used in a controller to regulate/protect a process – maybe even LENR? Thanks for the picture & your comments. Some things we don’t completely understand but can control them well with inventive techniques based on reasoned trial & error. Thomas Edison was hard of hearing & in one of his museums you can see his teeth bite marks on one of his early lab phonographs as he heard its sound thru vibration in the machine itself & his body bone structure to overcome his hearing problems & move on. Same true of Beethoven with his hearing problems.

  • Italo R.

    Dear dr. Rossi, you use a stethoscope to detect any anomalies in the reactors and so make the appropriate adjustments. Now that you have studied the phenomena and made the matrix these interventions seem to be easy for you. But customers of industrial plants will not know where and how to listen and adjust.
    Do you think that customers will not need to buy and use a stethoscope? (It’s a joke….).

    Listening Regards,
    Italo R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    JC Renoir:
    I made a matrix by mean of which I can read the effects inside the reactor combining series of sounds and the effects to which they are connected. After many corrections, it works.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    JC Renoir:
    Also today, as the others, is very busy. I’m looking at data, analyzing reports, studying and monitoring the 1MW E-Cat and the Hot Cat. This process will continue today, as always, as long as needed. I find time also to study, but mostly I am committed to fulfilling the Customer’s needs.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    D. Travchenko:
    I cannot speculate on when. It depends on too many factors, but thank you for your question.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    I’ll get back to you on this when appropriate.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Andrea Rossi

    James Rovnak:
    Thank you for your insight,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • James Rovnak

    Andrea better paper describing freq content in Palladium with R&D; without LENR present – just like a sonogram! Nyquist & bode plots of internal changes in process.
    http://www.enea.it/it/produzione-scientifica/pdf-eai/n2-2014/rf-detection-and-anomalous-heat.pdf Would be nice to have the same in Hot E-Cat for more insight? Jim

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