Kasom:
The activity to sell heat to our Customers is already on course and is and will remain a branch of our activity, independently from the other activities we are going to do.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dr. Rossi, I remember seeing a post a little while back that you were looking to “sell heat” to a customer. Is that still an option?
Long story short, I’m working on trying to convince a, um… large organization… to do a research effort in which we supply all the inputs (electricity and whatever else required), measure those inputs into your system (as far as we’re concerned it’s a black box), and then measure the outputs of your system as delivered back to us. We verify, say, X goes in, and 3X comes out in terms of absolute energy (or whatever that number ends up being). Sustain that over a 6-12 month period, we utilize that heat for building heat, and/or to generate electricity for our (large) facilities, and write a report out the other end.
If this X input = 3X (or whatever) output for month after month, then it’s a simple matter of stating that yes, in fact, we ran this system for 6 months and got excess power out the other end. We’d like to order one for every facility in the country, and our worldwide facilities also.
Obviously, I’m not a spokesman, but if this happened and succeeded, regulatory problems would probably run away from you, rather than get in your way.
If this is still an interest, or an option, please let me know, either on here or via eMail.
Matt
Now that you have been able to produce electricity directly with the E-Cat X, do you think it would be a suitable technology to deploy in centralized power stations to feed the electric grid?
Italo R.:
Thank you for the information. This technology is good to make prototypes, but it is too expensive and not competitive for a massive industrial production.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Company 3D prints ceramics that can withstand up to 1700 degrees Celsius
Combining several technologies into a process that makes very robust materials.
Daniel De Caluwè:
1- the certification process for the domestic units is on course
2- your point is not stupid. Security issues have to be taken in due consideration
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
A detail in your reply to Richard Wade, you wrote: “Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days”
Why isn’t the ratio of payback times (9.0) equal to the ratio of costs (5.0)? Maybe the fuel cost per year of $10 is not per kilowatt but some other amount of power?
regards, /pekka
A suggestion to readers of JoNP:
The site http://www.rossilivecat.com/ is not updated in real time, so there could be other messages of users and Rossi on JoNP that you’re not still reading.
If you want to read them, click on the date of the first message at the top, to read those new messages directly on JoNP
Probably, because of certification issues (high temperature; and although not really dangerous still a nuclear device) and maintenance issues (at least replace the charge every year), you’ve chosen a public distribution system (of light, heat and electricity), only operated by certified personnel in your original dream, but does this mean that you think certification (of E-cat X) will be very difficult for individual home units?
Anyhow, a public distribution system (as described in your dream) also could be a very good solution. And I can be wrong, but at first sight I only saw a minor disadvantage (that popped up after I read your message of 1st January): could a malevolent person (a thief or a terrorist) easily put a single house out of service by simply destroying the corresponding E-cat lamp, so that the corresponding house doesn’t get electricity and heat/cooling anymore? Compared with the present solutions where these services are safely locked behind the closed and locked doors of our houses? (Maybe it’s just a stupid and minor remark, but it popped up after I read your message of 1st January, and therefore I post this).
Do you envision selling just the E-Cat X, possibly with some basic control circuitry, to companies that want to manufacture specialized systems, in the foreseeable future. Say in 5 years or so?
This is a suggestion that came from Sandy on E-Cat World today that I thought I would pass along to you:
The name “EPCOT” means Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow”. Since Rossi is in Florida, and EPCOT is at Disneyworld (also in Florida), Rossi and Disney might join together to build a LENR-powered EPCOT. (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/destinations/epcot/)
George N.:
My friend, please review your math: 1 000 000 x 1 kW makes
1 000 MW
Besides: energy is given in MWh while MW is power.
Thank you for your enthus, but take care of the numbers and of the concepts of energy and power.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi,
If I have well understood your ballpark values, the business of e-cat X wafers wilk be only 1/9 of the whole business of e-cat X systems (power distribution cabling, heat distribution tubes…)
Will your policy be to keep only the wafer business and leave system business to others or you want to keep the whole cake?
Now if you could sell back each Mwh of eletric power to the grid for $200 (see: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2006-07-05/selling-power-back-to-the-grid ), it would take roughly three years to pay off your half billion dollar dream town investment according to my calculations based on electricity alone — not a bad balance sheet.
As Pekka Janhunen just suggested to you, the fastest way for you to start sales is probably to sell the electricity produced by your E-Cats to the general grid (providing F9 is positive of course).
In my opinion, in case all certifications are not secured yet, it seems difficult to sell anything directly to an industrial company as you would have to bring an E-Cat plant onto their premises.
Selling electricty to the general grid will allow not to wait for the latest certifications of the latest E-Cat versions.
Do you know whether it is possible to sell very large amounts of kWh to the grid :
1) in the USA ?
2) in China ?
S. Haynesworth,
I am not surprised to hear that.
Miami is an extremely friendly place for enterpreneurs that want to work here. Here you can also find all the professional help you need. It is a blessing to work here.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Gianluca:
A good base is to be already in the thermotecnic field or electotecnic field, but not necessarily. The selections will begin with the massive productioin preparaion: F9 is foundamental, we cannot give illusions before being certain to maintain our promises.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Gerard Mc Ek:
1- I never said that
2- the data of temperature will be given after the completion of the preliminar tests
3- same as in 2
4- 12 months and yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Good evening Andrea,
Increasingly interesting development * .X
Comments are wasted and even outside the normal lines communication.
The excitement for this new and unexpected development is tangible. In
particular as you have said in recent days.
To me it is very important what you said the other day in response to Italo:
“Applications managed by a public service could be easier to certify, Though, since the operation would be controlled by certified professionals “.
When you can start talking about education and Professionals
What features will they have?
Thanks a lot
Some time last year I read an interesting article about a “High Tech Ghost town” on the CNN website that might be of interest to you. I have done a bit of digging and found the article I think.
There are some other posts else where on the Internet too but I think this is one of the most recent.
I believe the town is based somewhere in New Mexico, and is designed to test new and breakthrough technologies in an urban planning type environment. I wonder if this city or another one like it could be used to test, validate and maybe even showcase your dream concept.
Would operating e-cat X’s within your industrial space to sell electricity back to the grid be an initial operating capability? Would this require certification? And would it provide enough initial revenue to fund your research and fund obtaining other types of certifications?
First of all the best wishes for the new year. May the New Fire enlighten your work!
Just a few questions about your Dream:
1. Can you explain why you do not consider a home unit able to supply light, heat and electricity? To me that seems the most obvious choice for the Ecat X.
2. What colour light does the Ecat X produce (e.g. 2700 K is warm white, 6000 K is blue).
3. What percentage of the energy would be visible light?
4. How often is refueling required and did you include that in your cost calculation?
Thanks and kind regards,
Gerard
Dear dr. Rossi, is it possible to use the electricity supplied by E-Cat-X to charge batteries? I think it is possible without problems.
If so, it should be also possible use these batteries to power back the same E-Cat-X or other E-Cats, after the appropriate necessary electric conversion.
Having always a charged battery, the security should be ensured. Or not?
In my opinion, forget urban planning, because such solutions will anyway be region-specific. The important thing is to scale up production of E-cat X by the required factor of one billion (I mean from the presently existing 3 1 kW units to the final 3 billion 1 kW units).
This could be done in two phases. In Phase 1, E-cat X’s would operate in Leonardo’s premises and make electric power (and optionally heat) which Leonardo sells to customers. Anyone who buys electricity is a potential customer, for example Google data center, aluminium factory or the general grid.
Phase 2 would be the selling of domestic and industrial units. Phase 2 would start when the needed certification is reached. Data to support certification would be gathered in Phase 1.
In this strategy, certification causes zero overall delay, because certification timing only affects the transition point from Phase 1 to Phase 2. The production capacity can grow exponentially all the time, and the growth rate is limited only by technical considerations. If certification is delayed, it only means that transition to Phase 2 occurs later along the exponential growth curve.
The time required to do this is not necessarily long. If after each 90-day payback time the production capacity is multiplied by ten, for example, then the growth by one billion takes only 2.2 years. For example, there is no need to wait until the exhaustion of the fuel, before installing each new and numbered-up generation of units in Leonardo’s premises in Phase 1. The design can continue to evolve throughout all the rapidly following generations of units which together make up Phase 1. Only after Phase 2 starts, it becomes less easy to modify the design.
Richard Wade:
Here are “ballpark” figures, to be worked upon:
Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days
Cost of the water piping to distribute the heat in an urban neighborhood: average 200 $/kW, payback time 1 year
Cost of the light 10 $/kW, payback time 10 days
Cost of the cabling to distribute the electric energy 200 $/kW, payback time 1 year
Total cost of the “network system” : 2 years and 4 months, let’s say 2 years, 6 months with maintainance costs
Expected lifespan of the system: 15 years
Potential market, considering to serve 1 billion people: 3 billion kWh/h
Potential E-Cat market, limited to this sector of employment: 1.5 trillions of $
Now, let’s wake uo, shake off the dreams and put down to work.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi
The customer that is using the heat made by the 1 MW E-Cat is buying the heat, or has bought the E-Cat?
Regards,
L.W.
Kasom:
The activity to sell heat to our Customers is already on course and is and will remain a branch of our activity, independently from the other activities we are going to do.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Your recent answer to Matt is a cacography with regards to so many statements which You have made trough the last years.
In other Words it is mambo-jango-tango, don’t You admit?
Matt:
to sell heat to a Customer is and will remain a branch of our activity
Warm Regards
A.R.
Frank Acland:
We are not yet arrived to a point that allows any answer to this question.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dr. Rossi, I remember seeing a post a little while back that you were looking to “sell heat” to a customer. Is that still an option?
Long story short, I’m working on trying to convince a, um… large organization… to do a research effort in which we supply all the inputs (electricity and whatever else required), measure those inputs into your system (as far as we’re concerned it’s a black box), and then measure the outputs of your system as delivered back to us. We verify, say, X goes in, and 3X comes out in terms of absolute energy (or whatever that number ends up being). Sustain that over a 6-12 month period, we utilize that heat for building heat, and/or to generate electricity for our (large) facilities, and write a report out the other end.
If this X input = 3X (or whatever) output for month after month, then it’s a simple matter of stating that yes, in fact, we ran this system for 6 months and got excess power out the other end. We’d like to order one for every facility in the country, and our worldwide facilities also.
Obviously, I’m not a spokesman, but if this happened and succeeded, regulatory problems would probably run away from you, rather than get in your way.
If this is still an interest, or an option, please let me know, either on here or via eMail.
Matt
Dear Andrea
Now that you have been able to produce electricity directly with the E-Cat X, do you think it would be a suitable technology to deploy in centralized power stations to feed the electric grid?
Many thanks,
Frank Acland
Gianluca:
Yes, of course.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Gianluca:
Because LENR are not yet diffused in the market.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Ing. Michelangelo De Meo:
Thank you for the interesting links.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Italo R.:
Thank you for the information. This technology is good to make prototypes, but it is too expensive and not competitive for a massive industrial production.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dana:
Time: 12.35 p.m.
Date: Jan 04 2016
1MW E-Cat stable
E-Cat X: in operation.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Company 3D prints ceramics that can withstand up to 1700 degrees Celsius
Combining several technologies into a process that makes very robust materials.
http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/01/company-3d-prints-ceramics-that-can-withstand-1700oc-temps/
Hello dr. Rossi: I am forwarding interesting articles.
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Work And Could Supplant Fossil Fuels
http://edge.org/response-detail/26753
Department of Energy Announces 12 New Projects to Accelerate Technologies that Improve the Efficiency and Reliability of the U.S. Electric Grid
http://energy.gov/articles/department-energy-announces-12-new-projects-accelerate-technologies-improve-efficiency-and
Chemistry, the four new metals that complement the table of elements
http://www.repubblica.it/scienze/2016/01/04/foto/tavola_periodica_4_nuovi_elementi-130604840/1/?ref=fbpr#1
Here is an interesting article in oilprice.com where no mention of the possibility that LENR may be part of a future energy of the planet.
http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Is-2016-The-Year-Of-Wind-And-Solar.html
Now I ask you……
Why they don’t consider LENR ?
Gentile A.R.
Preorders OF ECAT posted in recent years will also apply to * .X?
Thanks
Daniel De Caluwè:
1- the certification process for the domestic units is on course
2- your point is not stupid. Security issues have to be taken in due consideration
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Italo R:
Thank you for the useful suggestion,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Tom Conover:
Impossible to know, depends on what happens during the tests.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Pekka Janhunen:
I put the payback time of the fuel consumed in one year based on the price of the energy sold every day.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dr Andrea Rossi,
An update for today?
Cheers,
Dana
Dear Andrea,
A detail in your reply to Richard Wade, you wrote:
“Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days”
Why isn’t the ratio of payback times (9.0) equal to the ratio of costs (5.0)? Maybe the fuel cost per year of $10 is not per kilowatt but some other amount of power?
regards, /pekka
Hello Andrea,
(IF THE E-CAT X CONTINUES TO PERFORM AS IT IS NOW DOING …)
May I ask when the preliminary tests phase is scheduled to end?
Wouldn’t it be nice to publish both the 1MW and the E-Cat X preliminary results at the same time if possible?
Tom
A suggestion to readers of JoNP:
The site http://www.rossilivecat.com/ is not updated in real time, so there could be other messages of users and Rossi on JoNP that you’re not still reading.
If you want to read them, click on the date of the first message at the top, to read those new messages directly on JoNP
Dear Dr. Rossi,
Probably, because of certification issues (high temperature; and although not really dangerous still a nuclear device) and maintenance issues (at least replace the charge every year), you’ve chosen a public distribution system (of light, heat and electricity), only operated by certified personnel in your original dream, but does this mean that you think certification (of E-cat X) will be very difficult for individual home units?
Anyhow, a public distribution system (as described in your dream) also could be a very good solution. And I can be wrong, but at first sight I only saw a minor disadvantage (that popped up after I read your message of 1st January): could a malevolent person (a thief or a terrorist) easily put a single house out of service by simply destroying the corresponding E-cat lamp, so that the corresponding house doesn’t get electricity and heat/cooling anymore? Compared with the present solutions where these services are safely locked behind the closed and locked doors of our houses? (Maybe it’s just a stupid and minor remark, but it popped up after I read your message of 1st January, and therefore I post this).
Kind Regards,
Frank Acland:
That could be great. F9.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Tim:
Yes, that could be a sector. F9.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Do you envision selling just the E-Cat X, possibly with some basic control circuitry, to companies that want to manufacture specialized systems, in the foreseeable future. Say in 5 years or so?
Dear Andrea,
This is a suggestion that came from Sandy on E-Cat World today that I thought I would pass along to you:
The name “EPCOT” means Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow”. Since Rossi is in Florida, and EPCOT is at Disneyworld (also in Florida), Rossi and Disney might join together to build a LENR-powered EPCOT. (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/destinations/epcot/)
Best wishes,
Frank Acland
George N.:
My friend, please review your math: 1 000 000 x 1 kW makes
1 000 MW
Besides: energy is given in MWh while MW is power.
Thank you for your enthus, but take care of the numbers and of the concepts of energy and power.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Silvio Caggia:
Outsource when strategically and or tactically necessary: it has been defined in the specific situations.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi,
If I have well understood your ballpark values, the business of e-cat X wafers wilk be only 1/9 of the whole business of e-cat X systems (power distribution cabling, heat distribution tubes…)
Will your policy be to keep only the wafer business and leave system business to others or you want to keep the whole cake?
Mr Rossi,
To follow up, it sounds like it will cost roughly $500 to install a 1kw ecat-x street lamp according to: http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/01/03/some-financial-projections-for-rossis-e-cat-x-vision/
Therefore the up-front cost to implent your dream town of 1 million street lamps would be roughly $500,000,000 which could output 100 Mwh/h of pure eletrical power (as a conservative estimate, which I derived from: http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/12/30/big-reveal-from-rossi-at-midnight-new-years-eve/ ).
Now if you could sell back each Mwh of eletric power to the grid for $200 (see: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2006-07-05/selling-power-back-to-the-grid ), it would take roughly three years to pay off your half billion dollar dream town investment according to my calculations based on electricity alone — not a bad balance sheet.
Very Respectfully,
George N
Frederic Maillard:
It has to be seen in every local specific situation.
Thank you for your insight.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dear Dr. Rossi,
As Pekka Janhunen just suggested to you, the fastest way for you to start sales is probably to sell the electricity produced by your E-Cats to the general grid (providing F9 is positive of course).
In my opinion, in case all certifications are not secured yet, it seems difficult to sell anything directly to an industrial company as you would have to bring an E-Cat plant onto their premises.
Selling electricty to the general grid will allow not to wait for the latest certifications of the latest E-Cat versions.
Do you know whether it is possible to sell very large amounts of kWh to the grid :
1) in the USA ?
2) in China ?
Best wishes and success in 2016
FM
S. Haynesworth,
I am not surprised to hear that.
Miami is an extremely friendly place for enterpreneurs that want to work here. Here you can also find all the professional help you need. It is a blessing to work here.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Miami – is now the second most entrepreneurial city in the U.S,
with the highest startup density in the country.
http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/03/miami-tech/
Gianluca:
A good base is to be already in the thermotecnic field or electotecnic field, but not necessarily. The selections will begin with the massive productioin preparaion: F9 is foundamental, we cannot give illusions before being certain to maintain our promises.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Gerard Mc Ek:
1- I never said that
2- the data of temperature will be given after the completion of the preliminar tests
3- same as in 2
4- 12 months and yes.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
George N.:
We’ll see. The strategy is global, the local tactics will have to be evaluate in the specific situations.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Good evening Andrea,
Increasingly interesting development * .X
Comments are wasted and even outside the normal lines communication.
The excitement for this new and unexpected development is tangible. In
particular as you have said in recent days.
To me it is very important what you said the other day in response to Italo:
“Applications managed by a public service could be easier to certify, Though, since the operation would be controlled by certified professionals “.
When you can start talking about education and Professionals
What features will they have?
Thanks a lot
Gian Luca
Stephen:
Thank you for the link, but we’ll start in an urban context. F9.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Some time last year I read an interesting article about a “High Tech Ghost town” on the CNN website that might be of interest to you. I have done a bit of digging and found the article I think.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/06/business/test-city/
There are some other posts else where on the Internet too but I think this is one of the most recent.
I believe the town is based somewhere in New Mexico, and is designed to test new and breakthrough technologies in an urban planning type environment. I wonder if this city or another one like it could be used to test, validate and maybe even showcase your dream concept.
Italo R.:
Certification issues are not that simple.
Of course you can charge batteries, though.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Hi Dr Rossi,
Would operating e-cat X’s within your industrial space to sell electricity back to the grid be an initial operating capability? Would this require certification? And would it provide enough initial revenue to fund your research and fund obtaining other types of certifications?
Very Respectfully,
George N
Dear Andrea,
First of all the best wishes for the new year. May the New Fire enlighten your work!
Just a few questions about your Dream:
1. Can you explain why you do not consider a home unit able to supply light, heat and electricity? To me that seems the most obvious choice for the Ecat X.
2. What colour light does the Ecat X produce (e.g. 2700 K is warm white, 6000 K is blue).
3. What percentage of the energy would be visible light?
4. How often is refueling required and did you include that in your cost calculation?
Thanks and kind regards,
Gerard
Dear dr. Rossi, is it possible to use the electricity supplied by E-Cat-X to charge batteries? I think it is possible without problems.
If so, it should be also possible use these batteries to power back the same E-Cat-X or other E-Cats, after the appropriate necessary electric conversion.
Having always a charged battery, the security should be ensured. Or not?
Kind Regards
Italo R.
Pekka Janhunen:
Thank you for the suggestion.
Warm Regards
A.R.
Dear Andrea,
In my opinion, forget urban planning, because such solutions will anyway be region-specific. The important thing is to scale up production of E-cat X by the required factor of one billion (I mean from the presently existing 3 1 kW units to the final 3 billion 1 kW units).
This could be done in two phases. In Phase 1, E-cat X’s would operate in Leonardo’s premises and make electric power (and optionally heat) which Leonardo sells to customers. Anyone who buys electricity is a potential customer, for example Google data center, aluminium factory or the general grid.
Phase 2 would be the selling of domestic and industrial units. Phase 2 would start when the needed certification is reached. Data to support certification would be gathered in Phase 1.
In this strategy, certification causes zero overall delay, because certification timing only affects the transition point from Phase 1 to Phase 2. The production capacity can grow exponentially all the time, and the growth rate is limited only by technical considerations. If certification is delayed, it only means that transition to Phase 2 occurs later along the exponential growth curve.
The time required to do this is not necessarily long. If after each 90-day payback time the production capacity is multiplied by ten, for example, then the growth by one billion takes only 2.2 years. For example, there is no need to wait until the exhaustion of the fuel, before installing each new and numbered-up generation of units in Leonardo’s premises in Phase 1. The design can continue to evolve throughout all the rapidly following generations of units which together make up Phase 1. Only after Phase 2 starts, it becomes less easy to modify the design.
Best regards, /pekka
Richard Wade:
Here are “ballpark” figures, to be worked upon:
Cost of the E-Cat X/kW: 50 $, payback time 90 days
Cost of the fuel per year: 10 $, payback time 10 days
Cost of the water piping to distribute the heat in an urban neighborhood: average 200 $/kW, payback time 1 year
Cost of the light 10 $/kW, payback time 10 days
Cost of the cabling to distribute the electric energy 200 $/kW, payback time 1 year
Total cost of the “network system” : 2 years and 4 months, let’s say 2 years, 6 months with maintainance costs
Expected lifespan of the system: 15 years
Potential market, considering to serve 1 billion people: 3 billion kWh/h
Potential E-Cat market, limited to this sector of employment: 1.5 trillions of $
Now, let’s wake uo, shake off the dreams and put down to work.
Warm Regards,
A.R.