Dott.A.T.
I think you significantly underestimate the costs of the solar expansion needed to match the 3kW ECAT, even if this seems like overkill for most people. Of course it will depend where in the world you are, an equatorial climate is likely to need less battery storage to meet home demand. However here in the UK you would need a huge upgrade to battery capacity to store that amount of solar. Even so in the winter there will be times when you won’t be covering demand and need to draw from the grid. Not so with an ECAT which produces constantly.
You neglect installation costs other than some materials, however the vast majority of people can’t do this. The solar expansion would require scaffolding and lots of wiring to add the extra capacity. For the ECAT I imagine the installation will be dead simple for a trained electrician, especially if it is offered with a standard solar MC4 connector it should be plug and play depending on inverter capacity.
We have a small 3.8kW solar system and a 9.5kWh battery. We plan to add a 1kW ECAT to the inverter which has capacity as we planned to add more panels when we extend our roof. I’m confident that $2500 would be significantly cheaper than any solar upgrade, for which we would definitely need to add battery capacity which still wouldn’t cover winter demand. The real question for me would be certification, in the UK we have MCS certification which is required for all equipment to be integrated by a solar installer.
Dear Dott. A.T.
I think the discussion is interesting.
I think in your calculation you are missing some points. It’s not enough to buy the PV panels and keep it in the basement.
You need a good place for them. For example your roof. And you need someone that installs them there. With all the connections. Same for maintenance.
Another point is that PV requires way more accumulation capacity (because of the long hours without sun compared with the management of some short usage peak for the e-cat).
These points in my opinion change the numbers significantly.
You should check the prices for turn-key roof-top PV systems with accumulation.
Then you compare it with e-cat plus a way smaller accumulation system.
Then there are maintenance costs. On you roof.
Maybe the PV is still cheaper. Maybe not.
And anyway you are assuming that you have a roof available for a lot of panels. Not everyone has it.
Dott.A.T.:
The convenience depends on the specific situations that any pre-order sender must consider and calculate. I remind to all that the pre-orders are not binding and that they can be cancelled anytime without money changing place.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Dr. Rossi, dear friends of the forum,
a purely economic consideration, addressed to Dr. Rossi, but also to anyone considering using eCat for domestic energy production.
We intend to compare the costs of using the ECAT with a battery-inverter system (to exploit all the energy produced by storing it during periods of low usage).
Assuming the pre-existence of a battery-inverter photovoltaic system,
assuming the expertise to perform the installation/design,
taking into account the cost of a 3kW ECA, €7,500, plus cabling, monitoring and control systems, cables, and accessories for connection to the home grid (a conservative €500), for a total assumed cost of €8,000.
Considering 10 years of operation of the device,
excluding logistical factors, such as available space.
Given that
– the cost of a 400W nominal solar panel is currently around €70 (see sites such as Tecnomat or similar)
– given the inconsistency of solar compared to the ECA, we conservatively assume an equivalent solar power of 15 or 20 kW in panels. Nominal
Total cost of panels (20,000 / 400) * 70 = 3,500
Assuming the cost of any system expansions (inverter, cables, monitoring, accessories) of €2,000 more than the existing system, for a total of €5,500.
Given the expected performance of the panels for a period of more than 10 years (up to 20),
the cost difference is still approximately €2,000 (30%) compared to an eCat system.
Confirming that interest in eCat is enormous due to the intrinsic value of this new discovery/technology,
I would be interested in hearing an opinion and purely economic advice on the cost effectiveness for a family from Dr. Rossi and all the forum participants.
Best regards.
___________
Caro Dott. Rossi, cari amici del forum,
una considerazione di ambito puramente economico, non unicamente rivolta al Dott. Rossi, ma a chiunque consideri l’utilizzo dell’eCat per la produzione di energia domestica.
Si intende paragonare i costi in relazione all’utilizzo dell’ecat con un impianto ad inverter con batteria (per lo sfruttamento della intera energia prodotta accumulandola durante i momenti di minor utilizzo)
Assumendo la pre-esistenza di un impianto fotovoltaico ad inverter con batteria,
assumendo di avere le competenze per fare la installazione/progettazione
tenendo presente il costo di un ecat di 3kW , 7500€ , più cablature, sistemi di monitoraggio e controllo, cavi e accessori per la connessione alla rete domestica (500€ conservativi verso il basso), per un totale assunto di 8000€
considerando 10 anni di funzionamento del dispositivo,
escludendo fattori logistici, quali lo spazio disponibile
Visto che
– il costo di un pannello solare da 400W nominali è attualmente sui 70€ (vedi siti quali Tecnomat o simili)
– data l’incostanza del solare rispetto all’ecat si assume conservativamente un equivalente potenza solare di 15 o 20 kW in pannelli , nominale
Costo totale dei pannelli (20000 / 400) * 70 = 3500
Assumendo un costo di eventuali ampliamenti dell’impiani (inverter , cavi, monitoraggio, accessori) di +2000€ rispetto all’esistente, per un totale di 5500€.
Data l’attesa di rendimento dei pannelli per un periodo superiore ai 10 anni (fino a 20),
Il delta di costo è comunque di circa 2000€ (30%) rispetto ad un impianto ad eCat.
Confermando che l’interesse per l’ecat è comunque enorme per l’intrinseco valore della nuovo scoperta/tecnologia,
mi farebbe piacere avere comunque una opinione, e un consiglio puramente economico sulla convenienza dei costi per una famiglia, da parte del Dott. Rossi e di tutti i partecipanti al forum
More questions about Ecat tilt based on my question of 2024-11-18. ie, If it (the Ecat) was mounted with a tilt but yet stationary and stable would it work? AR yes.
1) The Ecat will start up and operate normally in any orientation, upside-down, on its side, irrespective of compass orientation, etc, as long as it is stationary and stable?
2) Where Q1 is true, the start up orientation becomes the zero reference for the deviation range plus/ minus 20 deg?
3) Where Q1 is true, if it was necessary to reorient the Ecat by more than 20 deg it should be switched off first?
Rick:
Yes,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dr Rossi,
Are the certifications you already got valid also for solar applications ?
Rick
Dott.A.T.
I think you significantly underestimate the costs of the solar expansion needed to match the 3kW ECAT, even if this seems like overkill for most people. Of course it will depend where in the world you are, an equatorial climate is likely to need less battery storage to meet home demand. However here in the UK you would need a huge upgrade to battery capacity to store that amount of solar. Even so in the winter there will be times when you won’t be covering demand and need to draw from the grid. Not so with an ECAT which produces constantly.
You neglect installation costs other than some materials, however the vast majority of people can’t do this. The solar expansion would require scaffolding and lots of wiring to add the extra capacity. For the ECAT I imagine the installation will be dead simple for a trained electrician, especially if it is offered with a standard solar MC4 connector it should be plug and play depending on inverter capacity.
We have a small 3.8kW solar system and a 9.5kWh battery. We plan to add a 1kW ECAT to the inverter which has capacity as we planned to add more panels when we extend our roof. I’m confident that $2500 would be significantly cheaper than any solar upgrade, for which we would definitely need to add battery capacity which still wouldn’t cover winter demand. The real question for me would be certification, in the UK we have MCS certification which is required for all equipment to be integrated by a solar installer.
Dear Dott. A.T.
I think the discussion is interesting.
I think in your calculation you are missing some points. It’s not enough to buy the PV panels and keep it in the basement.
You need a good place for them. For example your roof. And you need someone that installs them there. With all the connections. Same for maintenance.
Another point is that PV requires way more accumulation capacity (because of the long hours without sun compared with the management of some short usage peak for the e-cat).
These points in my opinion change the numbers significantly.
You should check the prices for turn-key roof-top PV systems with accumulation.
Then you compare it with e-cat plus a way smaller accumulation system.
Then there are maintenance costs. On you roof.
Maybe the PV is still cheaper. Maybe not.
And anyway you are assuming that you have a roof available for a lot of panels. Not everyone has it.
Best,
Alessandro
Dott.A.T.:
The convenience depends on the specific situations that any pre-order sender must consider and calculate. I remind to all that the pre-orders are not binding and that they can be cancelled anytime without money changing place.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Dr. Rossi, dear friends of the forum,
a purely economic consideration, addressed to Dr. Rossi, but also to anyone considering using eCat for domestic energy production.
We intend to compare the costs of using the ECAT with a battery-inverter system (to exploit all the energy produced by storing it during periods of low usage).
Assuming the pre-existence of a battery-inverter photovoltaic system,
assuming the expertise to perform the installation/design,
taking into account the cost of a 3kW ECA, €7,500, plus cabling, monitoring and control systems, cables, and accessories for connection to the home grid (a conservative €500), for a total assumed cost of €8,000.
Considering 10 years of operation of the device,
excluding logistical factors, such as available space.
Given that
– the cost of a 400W nominal solar panel is currently around €70 (see sites such as Tecnomat or similar)
– given the inconsistency of solar compared to the ECA, we conservatively assume an equivalent solar power of 15 or 20 kW in panels. Nominal
Total cost of panels (20,000 / 400) * 70 = 3,500
Assuming the cost of any system expansions (inverter, cables, monitoring, accessories) of €2,000 more than the existing system, for a total of €5,500.
Given the expected performance of the panels for a period of more than 10 years (up to 20),
the cost difference is still approximately €2,000 (30%) compared to an eCat system.
Confirming that interest in eCat is enormous due to the intrinsic value of this new discovery/technology,
I would be interested in hearing an opinion and purely economic advice on the cost effectiveness for a family from Dr. Rossi and all the forum participants.
Best regards.
___________
Caro Dott. Rossi, cari amici del forum,
una considerazione di ambito puramente economico, non unicamente rivolta al Dott. Rossi, ma a chiunque consideri l’utilizzo dell’eCat per la produzione di energia domestica.
Si intende paragonare i costi in relazione all’utilizzo dell’ecat con un impianto ad inverter con batteria (per lo sfruttamento della intera energia prodotta accumulandola durante i momenti di minor utilizzo)
Assumendo la pre-esistenza di un impianto fotovoltaico ad inverter con batteria,
assumendo di avere le competenze per fare la installazione/progettazione
tenendo presente il costo di un ecat di 3kW , 7500€ , più cablature, sistemi di monitoraggio e controllo, cavi e accessori per la connessione alla rete domestica (500€ conservativi verso il basso), per un totale assunto di 8000€
considerando 10 anni di funzionamento del dispositivo,
escludendo fattori logistici, quali lo spazio disponibile
Visto che
– il costo di un pannello solare da 400W nominali è attualmente sui 70€ (vedi siti quali Tecnomat o simili)
– data l’incostanza del solare rispetto all’ecat si assume conservativamente un equivalente potenza solare di 15 o 20 kW in pannelli , nominale
Costo totale dei pannelli (20000 / 400) * 70 = 3500
Assumendo un costo di eventuali ampliamenti dell’impiani (inverter , cavi, monitoraggio, accessori) di +2000€ rispetto all’esistente, per un totale di 5500€.
Data l’attesa di rendimento dei pannelli per un periodo superiore ai 10 anni (fino a 20),
Il delta di costo è comunque di circa 2000€ (30%) rispetto ad un impianto ad eCat.
Confermando che l’interesse per l’ecat è comunque enorme per l’intrinseco valore della nuovo scoperta/tecnologia,
mi farebbe piacere avere comunque una opinione, e un consiglio puramente economico sulla convenienza dei costi per una famiglia, da parte del Dott. Rossi e di tutti i partecipanti al forum
I migliori saluti.
Steve D:
1- no
2- see 1
3- see 1
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Dear Andrea Rossi
More questions about Ecat tilt based on my question of 2024-11-18. ie, If it (the Ecat) was mounted with a tilt but yet stationary and stable would it work? AR yes.
1) The Ecat will start up and operate normally in any orientation, upside-down, on its side, irrespective of compass orientation, etc, as long as it is stationary and stable?
2) Where Q1 is true, the start up orientation becomes the zero reference for the deviation range plus/ minus 20 deg?
3) Where Q1 is true, if it was necessary to reorient the Ecat by more than 20 deg it should be switched off first?
Thank you
Greg Leonard:
As I said, depends on the specific situation,
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Apologies AR for my typo.
I meant a stack of 20 NGU to give 240V.
How long to start the whole stack?
regards
Greg Leonard
Jean Paul Renoir:
Correct, for the reasons I already explained here,
Warm Regards,
A.R.